英文名称：standard operating procedure
年代：2008
推荐：千部英美剧台词本阅读
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| [00:19] | It was a Charlie Foxtrot, without a doubt. | 毫无疑问 那是一场浩劫 |
| [00:23] | Without a doubt. I’ve never seen anything like it. | 毫无疑问 我从没看过这种事 |
| [00:26] | I never thought that I would ever see American soldiers | 我从没想过会看到美国士兵 |
| [00:31] | so depressed and morale so low, | 如此沮丧 士气如此低迷 |
| [00:35] | and it was just unbelievable. Everything about it. | 这一切简直教人不敢置信 |
| [00:44] | You got to consider yourself dead. | 你得当自己死了 |
| [00:47] | And if you come back, you’re just a lucky bastard. | 如果能活着回来 那你是个幸运的混蛋 |
| [00:50] | You know, but if you’re there and you consider yourself already dead, | 但如果你在那里 当自己已经死了 |
| [00:54] | you can do all the shit you have to do. | 就可以做一大堆非做不可的事 |
| [00:59] | I wouldn’t recommend a vacation to Iraq anytime soon. | 短期内我不推荐去伊拉克旅游 |
| [02:55] | When Saddam’s sons Uday and Qusay were killed | 萨达姆的儿子乌代和库赛被杀时 |
| [03:03] | there was a great deal of information seized. | 我们取得了很多情报 |
| [03:08] | This was a key operation. | 那是场关键行动 |
| [03:10] | We no longer have to worry about Uday and Qusay, | 我们再也不必担心乌代和库赛了 |
| [03:13] | but we need to use this information to find Saddam. | 但我们要用这项情报来找萨达姆 |
| [03:22] | After that big event, the Secretary of Defense came to visit us. | 那件大事过后 国防部长来看我们 |
| [03:33] | He wanted to see the prison. He wanted to see the progress. | 他想看监狱 想看进展 |
| [03:36] | He wanted to… Of course, every trip out there by anybody | 想要…当然 到那里去的人都想 |
| [03:40] | included a trip to the torture chambers and the hanging facility. | 参观的刑求室和绞刑装置 |
| [03:43] | So we scheduled different events. | 于是我们安排了不同行程 |
| [03:47] | The first stop was Saddam’s hanging chambers. | 第一站是萨达姆的绞刑室 |
| [03:53] | We were preparing to continue his walking tour | 我们原本准备继续带他参观 |
| [03:56] | and he said, “No. I don’t want to go anywhere else. | 他说: “不 我不要看其它地方 |
| [04:03] | “Let some soldiers come over here and we’ll take some pictures. | “让一些士兵到这里来 拍几张照 |
| [04:06] | “I don’t need to see anything else in the prison.” | “我不想看监狱里的其它东西了” |
| [04:10] | And then he left. | 然后他就走了 |
| [04:15] | Enter General Miller, | 米勒将军 |
| [04:17] | the guru of interrogation and obtaining actionable intelligence. | 审问和取得有用情报的大师 |
| [04:26] | And he arrives the day after Rumsfeld’s visit. | 拉姆斯菲尔德来后第二天 他就来了 |
| [04:30] | He was gonna “Gitmo-ize” the operation. | 他是要”简介”这项行动 |
| [04:34] | Contract interrogators, | 聘雇审问人 |
| [04:36] | military people that had experience in Afghanistan or down at Guantanamo Bay | 有阿富汗或关塔那摩湾经验的军人 |
| [04:40] | they all arrived after Miller’s visit. | 他们都在米勒到访之后抵达 |
| [04:43] | He gives an in-brief. He’s not afraid to say, | 他做了简报 并不怕说 |
| [04:46] | “You have to treat the prisoners like dogs. | “你必须把囚犯当狗 |
| [04:48] | “They have to know that you are in control.” | “得让他们知道你是主人” |
| [04:52] | Cell block 1A transfers to the control | 1A 囚区变成… |
| [04:56] | of the military intelligence brigade commander, Colonel Pappas. | …归军事情报旅司令官 帕帕斯上校管理 |
| [04:59] | Cell block 1B, several days later, | 1B 囚区也在几天后 |
| [05:02] | under the control of Colonel Pappas and away from me. | 在帕帕斯上校的控制之下 远离了我的管辖 |
| [05:05] | They’re going to use those cells exclusively | 这些囚室变成他们专门用来 |
| [05:08] | for higher value security detainees. | 囚禁重要的未定罪囚犯 |
| [05:12] | Abu Ghraib was becoming exactly | 阿布格莱布完全成为 |
| [05:15] | what General Miller said he wanted to make it | 米勒将军所想要的模样 |
| [05:18] | the interrogation center of Iraq. | 伊拉克审讯中心 |
| [05:30] | “October 1, 2003. First day at the prison. | “2003年10月1日 第一天到监狱 |
| [05:35] | “It’s 9 p.m., and we can hear shots. | “现在是晚上九点 我们可以听到枪声 |
| [05:39] | “No white lights are allowed to be on at night. | “晚上不准开白光灯 |
| [05:43] | “No leaving the building after dark. | “入夜后不可以离开大楼 |
| [05:45] | “I hope we ain’t here long. | “希望我们不会在这里待太久 |
| [05:48] | “We drove in and two helicopters were landing, | “我们开车过来 有两架直升机在降落 |
| [05:51] | “taking prisoners off. | “把囚犯们运走 |
| [05:54] | “I’m scared of helicopters because of the dream. | “我很怕直升机 因为做了那个梦 |
| [05:58] | “The tail was swaying back and forth. | “机尾前后摇晃 |
| [06:01] | “Then a huge flame shot up, and it exploded. | “然后有团火焰冲上高空 直升机爆炸了 |
| [06:18] | “I have a bad feeling about this place. | “我对这地方有种不好的预感 |
| [06:22] | “The prison is called Abu Ghraib. 30,000 people were murdered here. | “监狱叫做阿布格莱布 有三万人在这里被杀 |
| [06:30] | “There’s a chamber where these men were hung. | “这些人都是在这里的某个房间被吊死的 |
| [06:35] | “I’m not sure about ghosts, but it is freaky. | “我不知道有没有鬼 但真诡异 |
| [06:41] | “I’m hoping to be home for Christmas, or soon after. I love you. Sabrina.” | “我希望圣诞节或节日后可以回家 我爱你 塞布丽娜” |
| [06:52] | We’re coming up the road, we see this huge structure. | 我们开上马路 看到一栋大楼 |
| [06:56] | It’s like six football fields. | 有六个足球场那么大 |
| [06:58] | Then we seen this sign saying like, “Fallujah,” right there, next town over. | 然后我们看到标志 上面写 “法鲁加” 就是下一个镇 |
| [07:03] | We’re like, “Yo, we right in the heart of it right now.” | 我们想: “我们在中央地带” |
| [07:05] | We get inside, it’s nothing but rubble, blown-up buildings from shelling | 我们走进去 里面只有碎石 被炮弹炸毁的大楼 |
| [07:11] | dogs running all over the place, burnt remains. | 野狗到处跑 烧毁的废墟 |
| [07:16] | The stench was unbearable. Urine, feces, body rot. | 恶臭非常难闻 尿 粪和腐尸味 |
| [07:23] | It was just disgusting. You didn’t want to touch anything. | 简直恶心极了 你什么都不想碰 |
| [07:28] | And then we had to move into prison cells ourselves. | 然后我们得走进囚室 |
| [07:39] | You’re walking around in your compound. Next thing you know, Boom. | 你在自己的地盘里走着 结果突然就”碰”地一声 |
| [07:45] | Incoming. Everyone’s yelling, “Incoming.” Like, boom, | 大家都在喊: “受到攻击!” |
| [07:48] | “Incoming, incoming!” You got to run. | “受到攻击!” 你得逃跑 |
| [07:51] | Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Goddamn, you’re getting mad, | “碰碰碰碰碰” 该死的 你快疯了 |
| [07:54] | ’cause it happens over and over and over and over and over again. | 因为一次又一次地爆炸 |
| [07:58] | After a while, the fear goes away and you just get angry. | 不久 恐惧消失 你开始生气 |
| [08:01] | It’s like, “Damn it, can we shoot back?” | 就像: “妈的 不能还击吗?” |
| [08:04] | One pierced the roof of the prison right to the floor, but it didn’t explode. | 一颗炸弹穿破监狱的屋顶掉到地上 但没发生爆炸 |
| [08:11] | Boom! Ting-ting-ting. Land on the floor. Soldiers in there are like “Holy crap.” | 直接落地 里面的士兵都想: “哇塞” |
| [08:17] | Well, they ain’t say, “Holy crap.” Now, you know what they said. | 他们并没说”哇塞”啦 你知道他们说了什么 |
| [08:29] | When you walk from the main portion of the prison, and you get to 1A1B | 从监狱主楼开始 走到1A1B |
| [08:34] | they already had intelligence detainees down there. | 那里已关有情报犯了 |
| [08:36] | That’s when I saw the nakedness. | 就在那时我看到裸体 |
| [08:40] | I’m like, “Hey, Sarge, why is everyone naked?” | 我说: “中士 大家干嘛不穿衣?” |
| [08:42] | You know. “Hey, that’s the MI. That’s what the MI does. | “是军事情报单位管辖的 |
| [08:45] | That’s the MI thing. I don’t know.” | 他们都这样 我也不清楚” |
| [08:47] | “Why these guys have on women’s panties?” | “这些男人为什么穿了女人内裤?” |
| [08:50] | He’s like, “This is to break them.” | 他说: “好让他们崩溃” |
| [08:53] | There’s guys naked, guys in women’s panties, | 那里是裸体 穿着女人内裤的男人 |
| [08:55] | guys, you know, handcuffed in stress positions, | 被手铐以痛苦的姿势铐着 |
| [08:59] | you know, in isolation cells, no lights, no windows. | 在独立囚室里 没有光 没有窗 |
| [09:03] | You open the door, turn the light on. “Oh, my God, Allah.” | 你打开门 开灯 “天啊 阿拉” |
| [09:07] | Click, turn the light off, close the door. It’s like, “Whoa, what is that?” | 关上灯 关好门 就像: “刚刚怎么回事?” |
| [09:11] | It was like, “Hey, that’s Military Intelligence. You know, just stay out their way.” | 就像: “是军事情报单位 你别多管” |
| [09:15] | And from then on, I was like, “Something’s not right here.” | 从那时起我就觉得 “事情不对劲” |
| [09:20] | I was working out of operations. | 我负责对付囚犯 |
| [09:22] | Some nights I’d get off work at 10:00. Some nights I’d be working all night. | 有些晚上我上班到十点 有些晚上我整夜都要上班 |
| [09:26] | Depends on how many prisoners we got in. | 视囚犯有多少而定 |
| [09:29] | Sometimes we’d get up to 200 that evening and I’d be there till 6:00 the next morning | 有时候一晚有两百名 我就工作到第二天早上六点 |
| [09:35] | and then I had guard duty at 6:00 a.m. and I’d get off guard duty, | 然后我早上六点要当警卫 等我下了班 |
| [09:39] | get a couple hours sleep and then go back to work. | 睡上几个小时 又再去上班 |
| [09:44] | Usually I’d go over to the hard site after my work day ended. | 通常我会在下班后去关有要犯的地方 |
| [09:49] | You know, it’d just be Megan and Graner and Freddy, | 只有梅根 格拉纳和佛莱迪 |
| [09:52] | maybe up in the office watching a movie on his laptop. | 也许会在办公室里 从他的笔记本上看电影 |
| [10:00] | Some nights I’d go up there | 有些晚上我过去 |
| [10:03] | and there would be different people in stress positions here and there | 会看到不同地方有不同的人 被铐成了痛苦的姿势 |
| [10:07] | and got them up on MRE boxes doing squats | 叫他们站在箱子上做青蛙跳 |
| [10:09] | or running up and down the tier, or something. | 或上下跑楼梯之类的 |
| [10:15] | We thought it was unusual, and weird and wrong, | 我们觉得那不寻常 怪异且错误 |
| [10:22] | but when we first got there, the example was already set. | 但我们抵达时就已经有先例 |
| [10:28] | That’s what we saw. I mean, it was okay. | 我们看到的就是那样 所以没问题 |
| [10:35] | The first thing that I noticed were… | 我注意到的第一件事是… |
| [10:38] | Was this guy. He had underwear on his head | 是一个人 他头上穿了件内裤 |
| [10:42] | and he was handcuffed backwards to a window. | 他双手反铐在窗户上 |
| [10:46] | And they were pretty much asking him questions. | 他们在审问他 |
| [10:50] | That’s the first time I started taking photos. | 那是我第一次开始拍照 |
| [11:05] | I wrote a letter home to Kelly, who is my wife. | 我写信回家给凯莉 她是我太太 |
| [11:12] | “October 20th, 2003. | “2003年10月20日 |
| [11:16] | “I can’t get it out of my head. | “我忘不掉 |
| [11:18] | “I walked downstairs to find the taxi cab driver handcuffed backwards | “我走下楼 看到计程车司机 被双手反铐 |
| [11:23] | “naked with his underwear over his head and face. | “全身赤裸 内裤罩在头脸上 |
| [11:29] | “He looked like Jesus Christ. At first I had to laugh, | “他看起来就像受难的耶稣 一开始我笑了出来 |
| [11:33] | “so I went and grabbed a camera and took a picture. | “于是我抓起相机开始拍照 |
| [11:36] | “One of the guys took my asp and started poking at his dick. | “其中一人拿起我的警棍 开始戳他的私处 |
| [11:40] | “Okay. That’s funny. Then it hit me. | “好 那很好笑 然后我才恍然大悟 |
| [11:46] | “That’s a form of molestation. | “那是折磨的一种 |
| [11:50] | “I took more pictures now to record what’s going on. | “我拍了更多照片 好把发生的事记录下来 |
| [11:54] | “Not many people know this shit goes on. | “没有多少人知道这里是怎么回事 |
| [11:58] | “The only reason I want to be there is to get the pictures | “我去那里的唯一原因就是拍照 |
| [12:00] | “to prove that the U.S. is not what they think. | “来证明美国并非如他们所想 |
| [12:05] | “But I don’t know if I could take it mentally. What if it was me in their shoes? | “但我不知道如果我是他们 心理上能否接受? |
| [12:16] | “I thought I could handle anything. | “我以为我什么事都能应付 |
| [12:20] | “I was wrong.” | “我错了” |
| [12:24] | If I come up to you and I’m like, “Hey, this is going on,” | 如果我走到你面前说 “发生了这种事” |
| [12:27] | you probably wouldn’t believe me unless I had something to show you. | 你或许不会相信我 除非我有证据 |
| [12:31] | So if I say, “Hey, this is going on. Look, I have proof,” | 所以如果我说 “发生了这种事 你看 我有证据” |
| [12:34] | you can’t deny it. | 你就无法否认了 |
| [12:45] | Gus was the prisoner with the leash. | 格斯就是被栓上链子的囚犯 |
| [12:48] | We thought he was maybe part of the Iraqi army, | 我们以为他可能是伊拉克军人 |
| [12:51] | because he was always, like, you know, | 因为他总是爱说 |
| [12:52] | “Saddam’s going to come back and kill all of you. I hate you.” | “萨达姆会回来把你们杀光的 我恨你们” |
| [12:56] | And all this stuff. He had all this anger. | 之类的话 他很愤怒 |
| [12:59] | And so we thought he was someone maybe pretty important. | 所以我们以为他大概是很重要的人 |
| [13:01] | And then we found out the history of his arrest and why he was there. | 之后我们才知道他被捕的经过和原因 |
| [13:06] | And he had gotten drunk and beat someone up. | 他喝醉酒 揍了别人 |
| [13:10] | He was just a regular prisoner, | 只不过是普通的犯人 |
| [13:13] | like we’d find at one of our county jails, or something. | 我们乡下的监狱里也有这种人 |
| [13:16] | Once he came over to the hard site, he stopped eating. | 他一到了重犯区 就开始绝食 |
| [13:19] | And we had to pump him, you know, five to eight IV’s a day | 我们得替他打点滴 一天五到八袋 |
| [13:25] | or bags of IV fluid a day just to keep him alive. | 或好几袋点滴让他能活下来 |
| [13:29] | Gus was being verbally threatening and not following any directions. | 格斯被人用言语恫吓 不遵守任何命令 |
| [13:34] | Graner put the leash on him. | 格拉纳替他拴上链子 |
| [13:36] | And then he crawled out on his own after that. | 接着他自己爬出去了 |
| [13:40] | And then he handed the leash to Lynndie. | 他把链子交给琳狄 |
| [13:45] | And that’s when he took the pictures. | 他就在那时照了相片 |
| [13:49] | And then the guy got up on his own after that. | 然后那个人自己站了起来 |
| [13:51] | They were trying to say that she was dragging him, | 他们想说她在拉他 |
| [13:53] | which never occurred. | 但实际上从未如此 |
| [13:55] | I was there, and I know it didn’t happen. | 我在场 根本没有这种事 |
| [13:58] | It may have been unorthodox, but he came out of the cell | 或许有点不寻常 但他出了囚室 |
| [14:01] | and he didn’t hurt anybody, and he didn’t get hurt. | 没有伤人 也没有受伤 |
| [14:07] | Graner had the camera in his cargo pocket. | 格拉纳的货车口袋里有台相机 |
| [14:11] | And he asked me and Ambuhl to come downstairs with him. | 他要我和安部跟他到楼下去 |
| [14:15] | When he opened the door, | 他打开门时 |
| [14:19] | Gus was in there, he was naked. | 格斯在里面 他全身赤裸 |
| [14:21] | He didn’t want to stand up, so that’s why he brought the tie-down strap. | 他不想站起来 所以他才带链子过去 |
| [14:27] | So he put it around his neck. So he’s gonna make him crawl out. | 于是他把链子拴在他脖子上 想叫他爬出去 |
| [14:34] | And I guess he got about halfway out of the door. | 我猜他半个身子出了门外 |
| [14:46] | Graner told me to hold onto the end of the tie-down strap, so I did. | 格拉纳叫我牵着链子的一端 我照做了 |
| [14:50] | I just grabbed it. You can see the slack on it. | 我只是牵着 可以看到绳子软垂着 |
| [14:55] | People said that I dragged him, | 人家说我拉他 |
| [14:59] | but I never did. | 但我根本没有 |
| [15:07] | Graner took three pictures back-to-back. | 格拉纳连续拍了三张照片 |
| [15:13] | You can see Megan on the side standing. | 你看到在场的梅根站在一旁 |
| [15:28] | He would’ve never had me standing next to Gus if the camera wasn’t there. | 要不是因为有相机 他绝不会让我站在格斯身边 |
| [15:32] | I’m a 95 to 100 pound female, short female, at that, | 我是体重45公斤的女性 身材矮小 |
| [15:38] | holding a strap that’s attached to his neck. I’m dominating him. | 牵着一条系着他脖子的绳子 我在支配他 |
| [15:42] | Maybe that’s what Graner was going for. | 也许格拉纳就是想表现这个 |
| [15:46] | Maybe it was for documentation, maybe it was for his own amusement. | 也许是为了拍纪录片 或者只为让他开心 |
| [15:50] | I don’t know. I don’t know what was going through his head. | 我不知道 我不知道他脑子里在想什么 |
| [15:54] | But he took it. | 但他拍照了 |
| [15:57] | In all the years as a cop, | 当警察当了那么多年 |
| [15:59] | I’d say over half of all my cases were solved | 我会说我经手的案子 有一半以上都能够解决 |
| [16:02] | because the criminal did something stupid. | 是因为犯人做下蠢事 |
| [16:07] | Taking photographs of these things is that one something stupid. | 对那种事情拍照就是蠢 |
| [16:14] | They gave me 12 CDs | 他们给我12片CD |
| [16:16] | and said, “There’s thousands of pictures from Abu Ghraib. | 说: “这里是数千张阿布格莱布的照片 |
| [16:19] | “We want you to find all of them that depict possible prisoner abuse | “请你找出其中拍到可能虐待囚犯 |
| [16:23] | or people that were in the area at the time that the abuse was occurring. | “或虐待发生时在场的人 |
| [16:28] | “And we need to know exactly when the pictures were taken.” | “我们要知道照片是何时拍的” |
| [16:33] | The pictures spoke a thousand words, | 这些照片就是最有力的证据 |
| [16:35] | but unless you know what day and time they’re talking, | 但除非你知道上面的事情发生在何时 |
| [16:37] | you wouldn’t know what the story was. | 才能把事情串起来 |
| [16:41] | I started lining pictures up based on subject matter. | 我开始按照事件类型将照片排序 |
| [16:45] | Put these on a time line so that the jury could see | 把照片依时间顺序排 好让法官看清 |
| [16:48] | when did the incident begin and when did it end. | 事件是在何时发生 何时结束 |
| [16:55] | How much time elapsed in between these photographs. | 数张照片之间又经过了多久 |
| [17:00] | How much actual effort did these people put into | 这些人花了多少心神 |
| [17:03] | what they were doing to the prisoners. | 对囚犯们做出这些事 |
| [17:07] | Who else was there in the room at the time that it occurred? | 事发当时在场的人还有谁? |
| [17:16] | How could all this go on without anybody noticing it? | 这一切怎能在没人察觉的状况下发生? |
| [17:26] | When you look at this whole case as one great, big media event, | 当你把这件事看成一件媒体大新闻 |
| [17:31] | you kind of lose focus. | 你就失焦了 |
| [17:33] | These pictures actually depict several separate incidents | 这些照片确实描述了数个各别事件 |
| [17:38] | of possible abuse or possible standard operating procedure. | 其中可能有虐待 也可能是标准流程 |
| [17:45] | All you could do is present what you know to be factual. | 而你只能呈现所知的事实 |
| [17:48] | You can’t bring in emotion or politics into the court. | 你不能在法庭上掺入感情或政治 |
| [17:55] | When I was in the brig, | 我在牢房里时 |
| [17:57] | every single woman there was in that brig because of a man. | 里面每个女人坐牢的原因都是男人 |
| [18:02] | Different reasons, yes, but it was because of a man. | 不同理由 但都是因为某个男人 |
| [18:07] | And when you join the military, no matter what anybody says, | 当你加入军队 不管别人怎么说 |
| [18:15] | it’s a man’s world. | 那的确是男人的世界 |
| [18:18] | You have to either equal a man or be controlled by a man. | 你不是得像个男人 就是被男人支配控制 |
| [18:25] | If you want to be their equal, you got to be strong. | 如果你想跟他们平等 就要很强悍 |
| [18:29] | They’re going to try to control you. | 他们会想办法控制你 |
| [18:31] | You need to step up and tell them, you know, show them who’s boss. | 你要勇敢告诉他们 让他们知道谁是老大 |
| [18:34] | “I’m not gonna take that. I’m not gonna let you power me. | “我不接受 我不要让你支配我 |
| [18:39] | “You know, control me because I’m a woman and you’re a man. | “控制我 只因为我是女的 你是男的 |
| [18:42] | “It’s not gonna happen.” Even though it’s the military. | “不会发生这种事” 虽然你是在军队 |
| [18:45] | I mean, hell, if you’re in the military, you got a gun. | 去它的 如果你在军队里 你有枪啊 |
| [18:49] | Use it. | 用枪啊 |
| [18:55] | If I would have thought about that then, by God, I would have. | 如果我当时也能想到这点 老天 那我绝对会用 |
| [19:03] | But I was blinded by being in love with a man. | 但我却因为爱上一个男人而盲目了 |
| [19:17] | Graner, he’s really charming. | 格拉纳 他很迷人 |
| [19:21] | If you didn’t know him and you just meet him, | 如果你不认识他 跟他初遇 |
| [19:25] | you’d be drawn in to him. | 你会被他吸引 |
| [19:30] | And in a crowded room, he’d be the one to look at. | 在拥挤的房间里 他是众人焦点 |
| [19:34] | He would draw the attention. | 他引人注目 |
| [19:37] | If the attention is not on him, he’ll get it there. | 如果焦点不在他身上 他会想办法让焦点转移 |
| [19:41] | That’s what he does. He thrives on that. | 他就是这种人 并引以为乐 |
| [19:47] | If you’re not paying attention to him, he’ll make comments about you | 如果你不注意他 他会批评你 |
| [19:50] | and this and that, you know. | 这个怎样 那个怎样的 |
| [19:52] | Whatever you wanna hear, he’ll say it. And he knows. | 不管你想不想听 他都会说 他很清楚 |
| [19:58] | He knew. And I was, what, 20 years old when I met him? He was 34. | 我遇见他时才20岁吧? 他那时34岁 |
| [20:02] | He had 14 years more experience than I did. | 他比我多了14年的经验 |
| [20:06] | So he knew what to say, what to do. | 他知道要说什么 要做什么 |
| [20:10] | And I was dumb enough to fall for it. I should have listened. | 我却笨得被他迷住了 我真该听人劝的 |
| [20:15] | Everyone tried to tell me, “He’s too old for you. He’s a bad guy.” | 大家都跟我说: “他太老 他是坏人” |
| [20:21] | But I didn’t believe them | 但我不相信他们 |
| [20:25] | because I believed him for some reason. | 因为我相信他 不知为什么 |
| [20:32] | Can’t figure it out now. | 现在也搞不清楚 |
| [21:17] | The population was just simply growing | 犯人人数越来越多 |
| [21:19] | but nobody really had a plan on how you release | 但没人知道该怎么把 |
| [21:23] | a formerly known as “suspected terrorist” | 一位之前被视为 “恐怖份子嫌犯” |
| [21:26] | or an “associate of a terrorist.” | 或 “恐怖份子帮凶” 的人放走 |
| [21:29] | General Wojdakowski told me after the first intake of prisoners | 瓦多考夫斯基将军 在接受数位囚犯后告诉我 |
| [21:34] | that this was going to go on for several weeks | 这种情形还要持续好几周 |
| [21:37] | and at the end of it we might have 1500 or more security detainees | 到最后我们可能会有一千五百 甚至更多的危险囚犯 |
| [21:43] | that we would be responsible for. | 会归在我们管辖之下 |
| [21:46] | And I said, “Don’t you think you should have shared that information with me, sir? | 我说: “你不觉得这件事应该通知我吗? |
| [21:49] | “You know, I mean, we don’t have any resources to provide | “我们没有资源能提供给 |
| [21:52] | “for the 200 prisoners in the cells out at Abu Ghraib. | “在阿布格莱布囚室里的两百名囚犯 |
| [21:55] | “And now you’re going to give us 1500 more. | “现在你还要多给我们一千五百名 |
| [21:59] | “What’s the release procedures?” | “释放犯人的程序是怎样?” |
| [22:01] | He said, “You are not to release anybody. Do you understand me? | 他说: “你不准释放任何人 懂吗? |
| [22:06] | “If any one of these prisoners gets released or ends up out on the street | “如果这些囚犯中有谁被释放了 跑上了街头 |
| [22:10] | “I’m coming after you.” | “我唯你是问” |
| [22:13] | They would go out in the middle of the night | 他们会在半夜出去 |
| [22:16] | and sweep up every single, you know, fighting age male and lock them all up. | 到各处去扫街 抓来役龄男子 把他们关起来 |
| [22:22] | That’s why you hear the stories | 因为这样 |
| [22:24] | about sons and fathers and, you know, nephews all getting locked up. | 你才会听说父子和侄儿全被关在一起的故事 |
| [22:28] | That’s what they would do. | 他们就是这么做 |
| [22:30] | Imagine someone coming to your town and taking all the men in it. | 想像有人到你住的镇上 把男人全部带走 |
| [22:36] | They would come in, like, on cattle trucks, and just like cattle. | 他们被载牛的大卡车运来 就像牛只那样 |
| [22:40] | I mean, you come to the back door, I mean, you hear a bang on the door | 你来到后门 听到有人大力敲门 |
| [22:44] | you know, bang, bang, bang, here come the deuce and a half truck | 梆梆梆 又来半吨重的大卡车 |
| [22:47] | full of scared individuals coming to jail. | 装满了要进监狱 满怀恐惧的人 |
| [22:52] | Were like, “They come get me in middle of night. | 就像: “他们半夜来抓我 |
| [22:54] | “Mister, Mister, what, am I in trouble? | “先生 先生 我惹麻烦了吗? |
| [22:56] | What I do? I’m not terrorist.” | 我做了什么? 我不是恐怖份子” |
| [22:58] | You know, they were like taxicab drivers and welders and, like, bakers, | 他们有人是计程车司机 焊接工和面包师 |
| [23:02] | and they’re at Abu Ghraib. | 住在阿布格莱布 |
| [23:05] | We had kids. | 我们有小孩 |
| [23:06] | If we can’t get the insurgent leader, we took their kid. | 如果抓不到叛乱首领 我们就抓走他们的孩子 |
| [23:09] | “Akbar, I have your son. Your son is in jail. | “阿克巴 我们有你儿子 在监狱里 |
| [23:13] | Turn yourself in and we’ll let your son go.” | 快自首 我们就放你儿子走” |
| [23:17] | I call that kidnapping. | 我称这个为绑架 |
| [23:20] | It got filled up so fast | 监狱很快就满了 |
| [23:21] | that we couldn’t take the children out anymore | 我们没办法再让小孩出去 |
| [23:24] | and they had to stay in their cells. | 他们得待在囚室里 |
| [23:25] | You feel bad for them holding a child for no reason | 他们把小孩关起来 只因为小孩父亲的身分 |
| [23:30] | just ’cause of who your father was. | 你觉得很糟糕 |
| [23:33] | You can only make their stay a little bit acceptable, I guess. | 我猜 你只能让小孩的日子好过点 |
| [23:36] | You give them all the candy from the MREs | 你给他们吃糖果 |
| [23:41] | to make their time go by better, I guess. | 让他们的日子没那么难挨 |
| [23:43] | But there’s only so much you can do or so much you could feel. | 但能做的就只有那么多 能感觉的就只有那么多 |
| [23:52] | “The lights went out in the prison | “监狱里的灯熄了 |
| [23:55] | “so here we are in the dark. | “所以我们都在黑暗里 |
| [24:10] | “I hear, ‘Missus! Missus!’ I go downstairs and flash my light | “我听到 “小姐! 小姐!” 就走下楼 打开手电筒 |
| [24:15] | “on a 16-year-old sitting down smacking ants. | “看到一个16岁的小孩 坐着打蚂蚁 |
| [24:25] | “Now these ants are Iraqi ants. Large. | “这些是伊拉克蚂蚁 体型很大 |
| [24:29] | “So large they could carry the family dog while giving you the finger. | “大得可以轻松自如地抬起一只狗 |
| [24:34] | “All the ants in the prison came to this one boy’s cell | “监狱里所有的蚂蚁都跑到这男孩的囚室 |
| [24:36] | “and decided to take over. | “想要攻占 |
| [24:39] | “All I could do was spray Lysol. The ants laughed at me and kept going. | “我只能喷杀虫剂 蚂蚁嘲笑我 继续前进 |
| [24:45] | “So here we were in the dark with one small flashlight | “我们在黑暗中 只有一把小手电筒 |
| [24:50] | “beating the ants with our shoes. | “用鞋子打蚂蚁 |
| [24:59] | “So that was the start of my shift. | “那时我才开始值班 |
| [25:05] | “They’ve been stripping the fucked-up prisoners | “他们把虚弱的犯人身上衣服脱光 |
| [25:06] | “and handcuffing them to the bars. | “把他们靠在铁柱上 |
| [25:11] | “I get to laugh at them and throw corn at them. | “我可以嘲笑他们 对他们丢玉米 |
| [25:15] | “I kind of feel bad for these guys | “我有点替这些人感到难过 |
| [25:18] | “even if they are accused of killing U.S. soldiers. | “虽然他们被控杀害美国士兵 |
| [25:23] | “We degrade them but we don’t hit them, and that’s a plus. | “我们羞辱他们但不殴打他们 这是好的 |
| [25:30] | “They sleep one hour, stay up for one hour then sleep one hour. | “他们睡一小时 醒一小时 然后再睡一小时 |
| [25:36] | “This goes on for 72 hours while we fuck with them. | “这样持续72小时 其间我们就戏弄他们 |
| [25:41] | “Most have been so scared they piss on themselves. It’s sad. | “他们多数人都吓得尿裤子 很悲惨 |
| [25:53] | “Pictures were taken, you have to see them. | “照片都拍了 你一定要看看 |
| [25:57] | “A sandbag was put over their heads while it was soaked in hot sauce. | “他们头上放了个沙包 是浸过热汤的沙包 |
| [26:02] | “Okay, that’s bad, but these guys have info. | “好吧 这样很糟 但这些人有情报 |
| [26:08] | “We were trying to get them to talk. That’s all.” | “我们只想叫他们说出来而已” |
| [26:22] | The big word that always comes up for me is “surreal”. | 我总是想到这个字眼 “荒诞” |
| [26:25] | Everything that you saw, everything that was going on. | 你看到的一切 发生的一切 |
| [26:30] | A bunch of unprofessional schmucks that didn’t know their damn job. | 一群不专业的蠢蛋连份内工作都不会做 |
| [26:33] | All thrown together, mixed up with a big-ass stick | 全都聚在一起 手里拿着大棍子 |
| [26:37] | and what you get out of it is the shit you see on the news from Abu Ghraib. | 你就只能得到 新闻上提及阿布格莱布的那些事 |
| [26:42] | It’s disgusting. Pisses me off. | 很恶心 让我不爽 |
| [26:46] | Because the whole time we’re screwing around | 因为我们在打混 |
| [26:48] | and not doing the damn job, Americans are dying. | 不好好工作的这段时间里 都有美国人死亡 |
| [26:54] | Abu G. had been hit by a mortar barrage | 阿布格莱卜曾被迫击炮攻击 |
| [26:56] | killed two Americans and wounded about 16. | 炸死两名美国人 伤了16人 |
| [27:01] | We went to do an interrogation on the Wolf, | 我们去审讯沃夫 |
| [27:04] | the cell leader of that group of people that mortared the prison. | 他是攻击监狱那伙人的首领 |
| [27:09] | There was two female specialists, one was an interrogator, one’s an analyst. | 有两名女性专员 一位是审讯员 一位是分析师 |
| [27:14] | They took all of his clothes off and got him totally naked, | 他们脱掉他全身衣服 让他完全赤裸 |
| [27:18] | which we weren’t supposed to do. | 这不是我们该做的 |
| [27:30] | When we got done with the interrogation, | 我们审讯完后 |
| [27:32] | I’m like, “So, what’s the scoop with the guy being naked? | 我想: “让这人赤裸是怎么回事? |
| [27:35] | “I mean, what’s going on?” Trying to think how they put it. | “发生了什么呢?” 我正在想他们是怎么说的 |
| [27:38] | The Arab position on the females, they’re a subservient role in their culture. | 阿拉伯女性的地位 在他们文化里是卑屈的 |
| [27:42] | And to try and break that down | 为了使他们崩溃 |
| [27:44] | so they’ll cooperate with the female interrogator, | 让他们跟女性审讯员合作 |
| [27:45] | they interrogate him nude. | 让他们裸身接受审讯 |
| [27:49] | I went back and I asked my section sergeant. | 我回去请教我的区域中士 |
| [27:53] | And he’s like, “Yeah, we’re not really supposed to do that | 他说: “对 我们是不该那么做 |
| [27:55] | “but we let the females do some things like that | “但我们让女性那样做 |
| [27:58] | “you know, to get over the Arab culture thing.” | “打破那种阿拉伯的文化” |
| [28:00] | And I’m like, “You just said we weren’t supposed to be doing that.” | 我心想: “但你刚才说 我们不该那么做的” |
| [28:03] | And he’s like, “Well, they’re allowed to do it, but you can’t do it.” | 他说: “他们可以 但你不行” |
| [28:08] | I said, “Okay. What am I supposed to do?” | 我说: “那我该怎么做?” |
| [28:11] | And he’s like, | 他说: |
| [28:11] | “Well, you know, if I was you, I wouldn’t be around that kind of stuff.” | “如果我是你 我不会靠近” |
| [28:21] | It’s not like they were trying to hide anything. | 他们并没有想要隐瞒 |
| [28:24] | And that’s what stands out to me | 让我更觉得事关重大 |
| [28:26] | is if you know you’re doing something wrong, dead wrong | 如果你知道你在做一件大错特错的事 |
| [28:29] | you’re gonna hide it. | 你会想隐瞒 |
| [28:30] | You’re gonna do your best to conceal it so people that know better don’t see it. | 你会想尽办法隐瞒它 免得让知情的人看见 |
| [28:37] | As I walk in, here’s a guy in his black PT shorts | 我走进去时 有个男的穿着黑色体育裤 |
| [28:42] | and T shirt and shower shoes | T恤衫和拖鞋 |
| [28:45] | and there’s another guy off just with his pants and his shirt. | 另一个男的身上只穿了裤子和T恤衫 |
| [28:48] | Each one had a naked detainee. | 每个人都负责一位裸体的犯人 |
| [28:50] | Someone says, “We’re MI. We know what we’re doing.” | 有人说 “我们是军事情报单位 我们知道该怎么办事” |
| [28:53] | And I’m like, “Okay.” You know, because I had no idea. | 我就想: “哦” 因为我完全不知情 |
| [28:56] | They’re not wearing rank. I don’t know what rank these people are. | 他们没配戴军阶 我不知道这些人是什么官位 |
| [28:58] | And they’ll put their handcuffs above their head, stretch them out that way, | 他们把手铐拉到头上 让他们这样伸展 |
| [29:01] | you know, stretch them out long. | 拉长他们手臂 |
| [29:03] | Then they started handcuffing them together. I’m like… | 然后又把他们铐在一起 我心想… |
| [29:07] | The whole time they’re yelling, “Confess. Confess. Confess. | 整段时间里他们都在吼 “认罪 认罪 |
| [29:10] | “You know you did it. Tell us what you did. Confess.” | “你明知你们有罪 快招供 认罪” |
| [29:12] | Then they start handcuffing them into | 然后又把他们铐成 |
| [29:14] | what appeared to be simulated sexual positions. | 类似性交的姿势 |
| [29:18] | And, I’m just like. I thought I had missed something. | 我搞不懂 我以为是我没弄清状况 |
| [29:22] | Come to find out, what’s going on is, | 后来我才明白 |
| [29:24] | these guys were accused of raping a teenager inside the jail. | 这些人被控在监狱里强暴一个少年 |
| [29:27] | No military intelligence value. | 完全没有军事情报价值 |
| [29:31] | Cruz is yelling at him, “Get undressed, get undressed!” | 克鲁兹对他吼: “脱衣服! 脱衣服!” |
| [29:33] | And the guy’s like, “No, mister, no.” | 那个人说: “不 先生 不要” |
| [29:39] | So after they’re undressed, they throw water down on the floor | 在他们脱了衣服以后 他们把水泼在地上 |
| [29:41] | and they make them low crawl | 要他们伏低身子爬 |
| [29:46] | making him try to drag his genitals onto the concrete. | 让他用生殖器拖过水泥地 |
| [29:51] | And I’m like, “What is going on here?” | 我心想: “这是怎么回事?” |
| [29:58] | I said, “Is this the way you all interrogate people?” | “是这样审讯人的吗?” |
| [30:00] | He goes, “There’s a lots of different ways we interrogate people.” | 他说: “审讯人的方式有很多种” |
| [30:08] | So I said, “I’ve had enough,” and I left. | 我就说: “我看够了” 然后离开 |
| [30:13] | The next morning, the lieutenant’s right out back. | 第二天早上 中尉到了 |
| [30:15] | I said, “Sir, military intelligence over at the hard site. | 我说: “长官 军事情报单位在重犯区 |
| [30:19] | “They are doing some pretty weird things with naked detainees.” | “他们正在对裸体的犯人 做很诡异的事” |
| [30:22] | He told me I had no business being over there. | 他告诉我 那里的事跟我无关 |
| [30:25] | And he also told me, “Stay out of MI’s way and let them do their job.” | 还说: “别去招惹军事情报单位 让他们工作” |
| [30:35] | Okay. | 好 |
| [30:40] | Okay, on the right, in black trunks, it’s Cruz. | 好 在右边穿黑色短裤的是克鲁兹 |
| [30:47] | Right next to him, myself. | 他旁边就是我 |
| [30:50] | To the left against the wall, Graner | 左边靠墙的是格拉纳 |
| [30:54] | and we’re looking at the two detainees handcuffed on the floor. | 我们正在看两名被铐在地上的犯人 |
| [31:02] | Can’t see anything else, actually. | 别的什么也看不到 |
| [31:24] | It was never intended as an interrogation. It was never an interrogation. | 那从一开始就没人当成是在审讯 根本不是审讯 |
| [31:28] | The yelling was just for show, I believe. | 我相信那些吼叫只是做样子的 |
| [31:34] | To show the spectators this would be done to anybody | 表现给旁观者看 他们也可能对其他不遵守规定的人 |
| [31:37] | who breaks the rules. | 这么做 |
| [31:50] | Abu Ghraib was mortared almost every day. People were dying there. | 阿布格莱布几乎每天都被轰击 很多人死亡 |
| [31:57] | So my frustration level was really high. | 因此我非常沮丧 |
| [32:00] | And when I heard about detainees that raped a little boy, | 我听说有犯人强暴小男孩 |
| [32:05] | I just completely went nuts. | 气得快疯了 |
| [32:09] | Right before I left, I was so pissed off that I had a bottle of water | 就在我离开前 我超级不爽 就拿了一瓶水 |
| [32:12] | and I splashed some of them just to show, pretty much, my hate. | 泼在他们身上 来表现我的恨意 |
| [32:19] | At one point, there was a Nerf ball brought in. | 还有人带了压力球来 |
| [32:22] | Everybody was throwing it to each other, playing catch. | 大家互相玩丢球 |
| [32:26] | Here, I’m going to get it. | 看 我快接到了 |
| [32:34] | Once, I threw the ball, it hit one of them in the leg, actually. | 有一次我丢出球 球打中他们其中一人的腿 |
| [32:37] | It’s a Nerf ball, so it can’t bring any pain anyway. | 那是压力球 所以不会痛 |
| [32:47] | Graner wanted me to take some pictures. | 格拉纳要我照几张相 |
| [32:49] | He didn’t tell me which ones to take or not to take. | 他没说要照怎样的照片 |
| [32:53] | So I was just walking around, and… | 所以我就到处逛 然后… |
| [32:57] | “Just take one,” you know? | “拍一张” 你懂吧? |
| [33:01] | MI came in and they got involved. They wanted to mess with them, too. | 军事情报单位介入了 他们也想参一脚 |
| [33:06] | They didn’t like it that they were raping the 15-year-old boy. | 他们不喜欢那些人强暴那个15岁男孩 |
| [33:10] | They were roughing them up, having them run up and down the tier, | 他们整他们 要他们上下楼梯跑 |
| [33:15] | crawl, run into walls, stuff like that. | 爬 撞墙之类的 |
| [33:19] | And then they handcuffed them together. | 然后把他们铐在一起 |
| [33:25] | That’s Graner with his hands on his hips and the gloves on his hands. | 双手插腰 手上戴了手套的是格拉纳 |
| [33:30] | The two guys in the background | 背景里的两个男的… |
| [33:33] | are the MI guys. | …是军事情报单位的人 |
| [33:34] | They didn’t wanna be in the pictures. They were mad. | 他们不想被拍到 他们很生气 |
| [33:38] | But I was like, “Well, hey, you know, don’t tell me. Whatever. | 但我想: “别跟我说 随你便 |
| [33:43] | “Just taking pictures.” | “我只是拍照” |
| [33:49] | I’m not gonna even comment on picture taking. | 我才不要对拍照做评论 |
| [33:52] | The whole time I was there I didn’t see any pictures being taken. | 我在那里的整段时间 都没看到有人拍照 |
| [33:56] | Even though I was in a few of them I didn’t see a flash or anything. | 即使在其中几张照片里有我 我并没看到闪光灯之类的 |
| [34:01] | Because if I did I would have said something to these guys. | 因为如果我看到了 我一定会出言阻止 |
| [34:05] | First of all, there’s a big sign, “No photography”. | 首先 那里有个大招牌写 “禁止照相” |
| [34:09] | And besides photographing something like that is just stupid. | 另外拍照根本就是一件蠢事 |
| [34:16] | I received a 10 month sentence, a demotion to E1 | 我被判10个月的徒刑 被降级为E1 |
| [34:23] | and a bad conduct discharge. | 因行为不检遭退伍 |
| [34:25] | I was more humiliated by that sentence than actually punished. | 那个判刑比实际上的惩罚还让我蒙羞 |
| [34:33] | Eight months in jail for pouring water on somebody, | 坐八个月的牢 因为对别人泼水 |
| [34:35] | and throwing a Nerf ball at somebody. That’s humiliating. People laugh at that. | 对别人丢球 真是丢脸 大家都会笑 |
| [34:52] | So I go back home to my prison cell | 于是我回家去坐牢 |
| [34:55] | and I got one of the terps, interpreter, sitting outside waiting on me. | 有一位口译坐在外面等我 |
| [35:00] | And he’s like, “Mr. Dugan, I’m so pissed. I’m just so pissed. I’m pissed off. | 他说: “杜根先生 我很不爽 我不爽极了 |
| [35:04] | “The general that you guys did, he wanted to tell us where Izzat was.” | “你们所审讯的那位将军 他要告诉我们伊扎德在哪里” |
| [35:08] | Well, that’s great. | 太好了 |
| [35:09] | And he’s like, “No, the interrogator wouldn’t ask him where Izzat was.” | 他说: “不 审讯者不会问他 伊扎德在哪” |
| [35:13] | He’s the vice president of Iraq, Saddam’s number two guy. | 他是伊拉克的副总统 萨达姆的副手 |
| [35:16] | Ten times the general said, | 那位将军说了十次 |
| [35:18] | “I’ll tell you where Izzat is. I’ll tell you where Izzat is.” | “我会告诉你们伊扎德在哪里” |
| [35:21] | And then he never asked the question. | 然而他却一次都没问 |
| [35:29] | He was standing just in front of his cell at attention. | 他就在牢房前立正站着 |
| [35:34] | I mean, he wasn’t handcuffed or anything. | 没有手铐之类的 |
| [35:38] | He was like a grandfather. Very respectful. | 他就像个老爷爷 令人心生尊敬 |
| [35:46] | They shaved his eyebrows for some reason and he was so upset. | 他们不知为什么剃掉了他的眉毛 他很沮丧 |
| [35:52] | And I told him not to worry, that it made him look younger. | 我叫他别担心 这样看起来年轻多了 |
| [35:57] | I just felt really bad for the guy. | 我真替那人觉得难过 |
| [36:03] | Four days later, we were gonna do him and the Army kid takes off the sandbag | 四天后 我们本要审讯他 军队的人拿掉沙包 |
| [36:08] | and the dude looks like Yoda. | 那人看来就像尤达 (注: 星战里那个尤达大师) |
| [36:10] | I mean, he’s got no eyebrows, he’s got no hair. | 他没有眉毛 没有头发 |
| [36:12] | I’m like, “Who the hell is that?” You know. | 我想: “他是谁啊?” |
| [36:14] | And he’s like, “That’s the freaking general,” you know. | 他说: “就是那他妈的将军” |
| [36:17] | And I’m like, “Bullshit.” And I thought he was playing a joke on me. | 我心想: “骗人” 以为他在跟我开玩笑 |
| [36:19] | “Damn it, I don’t want this bullshit. | “妈的 我不管这个烂人 |
| [36:21] | “I wanna do this guy, I wanna get this stuff. I want to find out fricking Izzat.” | “我要审讯 要得到情报 我要知道伊扎德在哪” |
| [36:24] | He’s like, “This is the fricking general, I’m not kidding you.” | 他说: “他就是那个将军 我没骗你” |
| [36:28] | Never got him. | 他什么也不透露 |
| [36:30] | That general wouldn’t say nothing else about it. | 对这件事将军什么话也不说 |
| [36:32] | He had a serious resolve that he wasn’t gonna cooperate anymore. | 他下定决心不要合作了 |
| [36:38] | We got promoted from babysitters to condition-setters. | 我们从看护者升级为判定形势者 |
| [36:44] | We got implemented into the plan. | 我们被纳入计划中 |
| [36:47] | The military intelligence people would come up there | 军事情报单位的人会过来 |
| [36:49] | and say, “Hey, play music at this time. Play it loud. | 然后说: “放点音乐 大声点 |
| [36:52] | “And if you got to, take the megaphone and stick it right in front of the door. | “如果非要不可 把麦克风插到门上去 |
| [36:55] | “And turn it all the way up so the guy can’t pray, | “把音量开到最大 他们就无法祷告 |
| [36:58] | “you know, he can’t sleep. Totally disorient him.” | “也没办法睡觉 让他完全精神恍惚” |
| [37:03] | So I played this song called Hip-Hop Hooray | 于是我播放一首歌 名叫《嘻哈万岁》 |
| [37:05] | over and over and over again. | 不断播放 |
| [37:08] | * Hip-hop hooray Ho * | *嘻哈万岁 嗬* |
| [37:10] | That’s what it sounded like. | 听起来就像这样 |
| [37:12] | After a while, the Iraqis were saying… | 不久伊拉克人都开始唱 |
| [37:14] | * Hey, ho * | *嘿 嗬* |
| [37:16] | This is not working. | 这样没用 |
| [37:18] | So, I changed it and I put on heavy metal music. | 所以我换成重金属乐 |
| [37:22] | I put on Metallica. | 选的是麦塔力卡 |
| [37:24] | Like, Enter the Sandman, this very loud song. | 如《睡魔来》这首很吵的歌 |
| [37:27] | Then they were screaming like, “I don’t like it.” | 然后他们尖叫起来: “我不喜欢” |
| [37:29] | But after a while it didn’t… They were numb to that. | 但过了一会…他们就麻木了 |
| [37:32] | I guess they were so deaf from the guitar, the A chord | 我猜他们被吉他声的高音吵得快聋了 |
| [37:36] | that they were able to, you know, sleep. Go figure. | 他们还可以睡觉 想不到吧 |
| [37:40] | I put in country music. That worked. They couldn’t stand it. | 我换上乡村音乐 就奏效了 他们完全受不了 |
| [37:44] | They’re like, “Oh my God, Allah. Allah.” You know, “Cut it off.” | 他们说: “拜托 阿拉 阿拉” 还有 “快关掉” |
| [37:48] | By the time the interrogators would come to take them out the cells | 等审讯者过来把他们带进牢房时 |
| [37:52] | they were more than ready to go. Like, “Please take me.” | 他们都等不及要走 一副”快带我走”的模样 |
| [37:57] | Sometimes MI would come in, | 有时候军事情报单位会介入 |
| [37:58] | say, “Hey, we’re gonna interrogate this guy today. | 说: “我们今天要审问这个人 |
| [38:01] | “Get him out and you can start… Soften him up a little bit.” | “带他出来 你们可以先…先让他变得脆弱” |
| [38:05] | Scream at him, yell at him, make him do PT. | 对他吼叫 让他做体操 |
| [38:07] | Handcuff him in a awkward position for a while. | 把他铐成痛苦的姿势一阵子 |
| [38:10] | Completely strip him and have a female do it | 叫女人来把他衣服脱光 |
| [38:13] | because that would embarrass the person or humiliate them even more. | 因为这样能给他难堪 让他蒙羞 |
| [38:18] | We didn’t kill them. We didn’t cut their heads off. | 我们没杀他们 没把他们的头砍掉 |
| [38:23] | We didn’t shoot them. | 没有对他们开枪 |
| [38:25] | We didn’t cut them and let them bleed to death. | 我们没割伤他们 让他们流血而死 |
| [38:30] | We just did what we were told, to soften them up for interrogation. | 我们只是听命行事 让他们卸防好接受审讯 |
| [38:33] | And we were told to do anything short of killing them. | 我们接到的命令是 除了杀人以外什么都可以做 |
| [38:35] | We would make them stand in awkward positions | 我们让他们以奇怪的姿势 |
| [38:39] | for hours at a time to stress them out and to strain them. | 站立好几个钟头 让他们疲惫无力 |
| [38:44] | And we would have them crawl up and down the tier. | 我们会叫他们上下爬楼梯 |
| [38:47] | We’d pour cold water on them. | 用冷水泼他们 |
| [38:50] | Point at him and laugh at him while he was in the shower naked. | 趁他裸体淋浴时嘲笑他们 |
| [38:54] | Shower him with all his clothes on. | 在他身上有衣服时泼水 |
| [38:56] | Cut off all his clothes with a knife. | 用刀把他的衣服割破 |
| [39:00] | Burn him with a cigarette. | 用香烟烧他 |
| [39:02] | We’d just do what they want us to do. | 我们只是做他们叫我们做的 |
| [39:06] | If they want us to PT the guy that’s what we do. | 如果要让他们做体操 我们就做 |
| [39:10] | If they want us to keep him up, that’s what we do. | 如果要让他们不能睡觉 我们也照做 |
| [39:13] | They say, “I want him to be awake.” | 他们说: “我要他们清醒” |
| [39:16] | They say, “He’s dirty. I want him to shower a lot.” | 他们说: “他很脏 我要他常常洗澡” |
| [39:20] | Did any of this seem weird? | 这些要求不会很怪吗? |
| [39:22] | Not when you take into account that we’re being told | 要是你考虑到我们是听命而行 |
| [39:26] | that that’s helping to save lives and you see that people are coming in | 这么做是为了拯救生命 而且当看到监狱外面进来的人 |
| [39:33] | from right outside the wire with their body parts missing | 肢体都有残缺 他们需要知道这么做的人是谁 |
| [39:37] | and they need to know who’s doing it so they can stop it. | 才能够加以阻止的话 就不会觉得怪 |
| [39:42] | And these are your battle buddies. | 这些人都是你的战友 |
| [40:45] | Gilligan was the one on the box with the wires. | 站在箱子上缠有电线的是吉利根 |
| [40:50] | He was accused of killing two CID agents. | 他被控杀害两名刑事局探员 |
| [41:10] | It was his box. He had to hold it, he had to stand on it. | 那是他的箱子 他得自己拿 然后站到上面去 |
| [41:15] | It was cold so he had a blanket on. | 因为很冷 所以他披了件毯子 |
| [41:20] | I mean, he was never physically ever touched that I saw. | 我并没看到他被谁碰到 |
| [41:24] | He was just very, very tired. | 他只是非常 非常累 |
| [41:33] | He kept giving us different names, so Graner nicknamed him “Gilligan.” | 他不断给我们不同的名字 所以格拉纳叫他”吉利根” |
| [41:47] | When I got there he was in the shower. There was wires on his fingers | 我到的时候 他在淋浴间 他手指上缠有电线 |
| [41:52] | and he was told he would be electrocuted if he fell off. | 他们告诉他 如果他掉下来就会被电死 |
| [41:58] | There was no electricity going through the wires | 电线并没有通电 |
| [42:01] | and to say, “Hey, if you fall off you’re gonna be electrocuted.” | 若说 “如果你掉下来就会被电死” |
| [42:05] | I mean, that would keep anybody awake. | 那绝对会让任何人保持清醒 |
| [42:07] | So, it was part of the sleep plan. | 所以那是不让他们睡觉的计划之一 |
| [42:13] | You had to keep him awake. | 你得让他保持清醒 |
| [42:18] | It would have been meaner if there was electricity | 要是真的有电 |
| [42:21] | and he really could be electrocuted. | 而且可能会电死他 那就更邪恶了 |
| [42:26] | It was just words. | 但那只是说说 |
| [42:35] | The wires were taken off after photos were taken. | 拍完照后就把电线拿掉了 |
| [42:51] | You’ll see Sergeant Frederick in it. That’s the one I took. | 你会看到照片里的佛德列克中士 这张是我拍的 |
| [42:57] | And the one where I’m outside the shower looking in | 这张是我从浴室外面往里拍 |
| [43:01] | I took that one. | 那张是我拍的 |
| [43:19] | He became one of our workers so he was let out, like, every day. | 他变成我们的工人之一 所以每天会被放出去 |
| [43:23] | He was, like… He’s kind of fun. But I think it was proven he was innocent. | 他满好玩的 但我想那证明他是无辜的 |
| [43:30] | We’d give him an extra meal for helping out and cigarettes, that kind of stuff. | 我们多给他食物和香烟 感谢他帮忙 |
| [43:35] | He was about 25. 24, 25. Young guy. Pretty decent. | 他大约二十四五岁 年轻人 人不错 |
| [43:50] | Each of the pictures had file time stamps | 每张照片都有档案时间戳记 |
| [43:52] | but they were all off anywhere from a year plus to a couple hours. | 但他们的间隔都从数小时到一年内不等 |
| [43:58] | And every time they got copied to a CD from one computer to another, | 每次资料从电脑上拷贝到CD |
| [44:02] | the times would change based on that computer’s time setting. | 时间就会根据电脑的时间设定而变 |
| [44:08] | But the one time setting that did stay constant | 但有一个时间设定是不变的 |
| [44:10] | is what we call metadata. | 也就是元数据 |
| [44:14] | Metadata’s a big, two-dollar word for information about information. | 元数据是个多意的字眼 指有关信息的信息 |
| [44:21] | Pictures have information inside the file | 照片档案里有信息 |
| [44:24] | that tells you about when that file was created, | 告诉你档案何时建立 |
| [44:29] | what software created it, the exposure settings | 由什么软件建立 曝光设定如何 |
| [44:34] | and the date and time that the camera thought it was | 还有摄影机拍摄该照片时 |
| [44:36] | when it took the picture. | 所认定的日期和时间 |
| [44:40] | I was really elated to see that the metadata was still intact. | 我很兴奋元数据仍完整 |
| [44:48] | The three main cameras belonged to Graner, Harman and Frederick. | 三台主相机属于格拉纳 哈曼和佛德列克 |
| [44:53] | Graner’s camera, the Sony FD Mavica, that took most of the pictures. | 格拉纳的相机是索尼的 FD Mavica 他拍了最多照片 |
| [44:59] | There was a Sony Cybershot I believe belonged to Harman. | 我相信索尼的 Cybershot 是哈曼的 |
| [45:05] | And Deluxe Classic Cam, which belonged to Frederick. | 另外 Deluxe Classic 则属于佛德列克 |
| [45:18] | I then realized that these people were actually taking pictures | 我后来才明白这些人的相机 |
| [45:20] | of the exact same incident almost at the exact same time. | 几乎都在同一事件的同一时间拍照 |
| [45:25] | Found a total of eight separate time-synch incidents | 一共找到八张时间相同的事件 |
| [45:29] | where I could say, “This camera thought it was this time. | 我能够说: “这台相机以为是这时 |
| [45:32] | “This camera thought it was that time.” | “那台相机以为是那时” |
| [45:34] | Once I was able to adjust it, all the pictures just seemed to line up. | 一旦我做了调整 就能把所有照片排好 |
| [45:44] | There was a guard log | 有张警卫记录 |
| [45:45] | where they recorded incidences that occurred at the jail. | 他们纪录了监狱里的事件发生时间 |
| [45:49] | It actually confirmed the time line was accurate. | 这也证实了时间线是正确的 |
| [45:56] | Sabrina Harman’s camera thought it was 2002. | 塞布丽娜·哈曼的相机以为是2002年 |
| [45:59] | I had to adjust her camera one year, nine months, 11 hours, 29 minutes. | 我得把她的相机多调 1年9个月11小时又29分钟 |
| [46:06] | Frederick’s and Graner’s were only seven or eight hours off. | 佛格列克和格拉纳的相机 只误差了七八小时 |
| [46:35] | Nobody really got any intelligence there. Very few of us. | 没人得到任何军事情报 几乎没人 |
| [46:39] | Most of our interrogators were 18-year-old kids that are reservists. | 我们多半的审讯员都是十八岁的后备役军人 |
| [46:43] | And if you think about it, you got a 45 to a 65-year-old | 你想想 你有45到65岁 |
| [46:50] | one, two, or three, or four-star general that you’re gonna be talking to. | 一 二或三 四星的将军要跟他们谈话 |
| [46:53] | And you’re 18 years old, just got out of high school, joined the Army | 你才十八岁 刚从高中毕业 从了军 |
| [46:57] | and went through interrogator school. | 念完审讯学校 |
| [46:59] | What the hell are you gonna ask that 55-year-old general | 你要怎么审问一个55岁 |
| [47:01] | that’s seen the world, done everything and been everywhere? | 见多识广的将军? |
| [47:06] | You know, these kids are intimidated as hell. | 这些年轻人怕死了 |
| [47:09] | And the generals and the colonels and these older guys know it. | 这些将军和上校都很清楚 |
| [47:11] | And it’s like, they laugh at them. | 他们嘲笑他们 |
| [47:18] | So I’m working this guy, not getting crap out of him. | 我审讯一个人 毫无所获 |
| [47:22] | His brother was also captured with him. So I went into the hallway | 他的兄弟也一起被捕了 于是我到走廊去 |
| [47:26] | and decided I’d see what was going on with his brother. | 想看看他的兄弟那边情况怎样 |
| [47:31] | There’s six interrogation booths, and each one has a two-way mirror | 共有六间审讯室 每间都有双向镜子 |
| [47:35] | so you can view what’s going on with the interrogation. | 好让你能看到审讯经过 |
| [47:40] | You got an Army female and an Army male playing grab-ass | 你看到男女士兵在调情 |
| [47:45] | and not asking the detainee questions. | 没问犯人问题 |
| [47:48] | There was a guy coming on to a girl and a girl being receptive | 有个男的跟女的搭讪 女方还陪着玩 |
| [47:51] | when they’re supposed to be interrogating this schmuck. | 而他们应该要审讯犯人才对 |
| [47:57] | And I said, “Hey, why don’t we, like, switch guys?” | 我说: “我们换人怎么样?” |
| [48:02] | So this new detainee’s in my booth and I say, | 于是我换了一个新犯人 我说 |
| [48:06] | “Listen. I’ve been sitting here for two hours, | “听好 我在这里坐两小时了 |
| [48:09] | “and I’ve actually been sitting here for two days | “其实是坐了两天 |
| [48:11] | “’cause I was standing outside a two-way mirror | “因为我都站在外面从双向镜里 |
| [48:13] | “watching you with the other guys, okay? | “观察你们跟其他人 |
| [48:15] | “I know you know all kinds of crap. | “我知道你们这种人 |
| [48:16] | “And I know that you’re pulling a lot of bullshit | “我也知道你对那些年轻军人 |
| [48:18] | “on these Army kids.” | “信口开河” |
| [48:19] | I said, “I’m not gonna put up with your bullshit, okay? | 我说: “我可不想听你鬼扯 |
| [48:23] | “It takes me three minutes and 47 seconds to smoke this cigarette. | “我抽根烟要3分钟47秒 |
| [48:27] | “I’m gonna go outside, I’m gonna smoke this cigarette, | “我要出去 抽根烟 |
| [48:29] | “and when I come back in | “等我回来 |
| [48:31] | “you’re gonna tell me every damn thing I wanna know. You understand me?” | “你要把所有我想知道的事情都告诉我 你懂吗?” |
| [48:35] | I said, “Do I look like I’m in the fricking Army to you?” | 我说: “我看起来像是军人吗?” |
| [48:47] | And I put my fist through the plastic table and I went outside to smoke my cigarette. | 我一拳打穿塑胶桌 走出去抽烟了 |
| [48:55] | Then after about a minute and a half, | 一分半钟后 |
| [48:57] | there was crying and yelling coming out of my booth. | 我房间传来哭泣和嘶吼声 |
| [48:59] | And my terp was standing near the doorway | 我的口译站在门口处 |
| [49:01] | and he’s like, “You scared the shit out of this guy. | 他说: “你把那个人吓坏了 |
| [49:03] | “He don’t know what you’re gonna do. | “他不知所措 |
| [49:04] | “He’ll tell you anything you want. I mean, whatever you want to talk about.” | “你想知道什么他都说 不管你想谈什么都行” |
| [49:07] | So I walked back in there real calm and I sat down in the corner | 于是我很镇静地走进去 坐在角落里 |
| [49:11] | and I said, “So, what’s your decision?” | 说: “你决定如何?” |
| [49:22] | My prisons were spread all over the place, | 我的犯人到处都有 |
| [49:26] | so I was on the road quite a bit. | 所以我经常要出差 |
| [49:31] | One time I arrived down at Abu Ghraib and Lieutenant Wood said to me, | 有一次我到了阿布格莱布 伍德中尉对我说 |
| [49:35] | “Oh, ma’am, we have an interrogation going on. | “长官 我们正在审讯 |
| [49:38] | “Would you like to come over and see it?” | “你是否想过去看看?” |
| [49:41] | She took me over there and we stood in the hallway and I observed it, | 她带我过去 我们站在走廊上 我观察着 |
| [49:44] | and it looked perfectly normal. | 一切看起来完全正常 |
| [49:47] | I’ve wondered many times | 我曾多次纳闷 |
| [49:49] | if they didn’t take me in there specifically so I would be able to say, | 他们是否故意要我过去 好让我说 |
| [49:55] | “Yes, I saw an interrogation, and, yes, it looked perfectly normal.” | “对 我看到审讯了 一切正常” |
| [49:59] | It’s kind of funny how when, say, General Karpinski or some other big shot | 满有意思的是 当卡尔平斯基将军或其他大人物 |
| [50:07] | would come look at the prison we’d… You know, have a dog-and-pony show. | 来到我们的监狱看”团队演出”时 |
| [50:14] | And everybody would get their mattresses back. | 大家都会拿回他们的床垫 |
| [50:17] | Everybody would get their clothes back. | 大家都会拿回他们的衣服 |
| [50:19] | And then as soon as the people left, | 只要人一走 |
| [50:22] | whoever was deprived of certain things got deprived of it again. | 原本要被拿走的东西又会被拿走 |
| [50:27] | That just seemed normal to deprive people of something | 如果有人不合作 抢走他的东西 |
| [50:30] | if they’re not cooperating with you. | 感觉很正常 |
| [50:37] | CIA, Iraqi Survey Group, | 中情局 伊拉克调查单位 |
| [50:41] | DIA, FBI, | 刑事局 联邦调查局 |
| [50:44] | Task Force 121, | 121小队 |
| [50:47] | the other government agencies, that’s what we called it, the OGA. | 其它政府单位 我们简称OGA |
| [50:50] | They had no rules. | 他们不必守规定 |
| [50:52] | We called them the ghosts ’cause they’d come in, | 我们称他们为鬼魂 因为他们进来 |
| [50:54] | you don’t know who they are. | 你不知道他们是谁 |
| [50:56] | Whoever their prisoners were, you never logged them. | 不知道他们的犯人是谁 也从来没有犯人笔录 |
| [51:00] | “How’s it going there, soldier? | “大兵 情况怎样啊? |
| [51:02] | “You know, here’s this guy, don’t log him in the book. | “这里这个人 不要登录了 |
| [51:05] | “He’s not here, hasn’t been here. | “他不在 也没来过这里 |
| [51:08] | “Just put him in a cell in there and, you know, don’t mark it. | “就把他放进一间囚室 不要做记号 |
| [51:11] | “When the Red Cross comes here, move them another place. | “若有红十字会的人来 就把他移到别处 |
| [51:15] | “When the Red Cross goes to the other place | “红十字会的人到其它地方 |
| [51:17] | “move them back to where they were. You know, ’cause they don’t exist here.” | “再把他们放回这里 因为他们并不存在” |
| [51:21] | I’m used to being out in the road, you know. | 我习惯出任务了 |
| [51:24] | “Hey, soldiers, go do this.” | “大兵 做这个” |
| [51:26] | “Roger that, sergeant, airborne. See you later, we’re done.” | “收到 中士 确认 待会见 结束” |
| [51:29] | But now we’re a part of this big high-profile operation. | 但现在我们在这场机密大任务当中 |
| [51:33] | You know, we’re getting, like, the deck-of-card guys, | 有重大要犯要看管 |
| [51:36] | the guys who were on the deck of cards. We’re getting them. | 那些人是大人物 我们却要管他们 |
| [51:39] | Like, whoa, we have a big job. Wow, we got to guard these guys now? | 就像 我们有大任务耶 我们要负责监管这些人? |
| [51:46] | That’s when things changed. | 事情就在那时开始变了 |
| [52:06] | They’d take them into the shower room, put a sheet up over the door | 他们把犯人带进淋浴间 在门上塞了床单 |
| [52:11] | stick them underneath the shower spigot. | 叫他们站到水龙头下 |
| [52:15] | Or stick them in the garbage pails with the ice. Then have at it. | 或叫他们挤进装满冰块的垃圾桶 折磨他们 |
| [52:31] | A burlap sack on their head | 头上绑着粗麻布 |
| [52:33] | the wetness, it’s sticking to your nose, sticking to your mouth. | 湿湿的粘在你鼻子 嘴巴上 |
| [52:39] | Makes them feel like they’re drowning. | 让他们觉得像要溺水了 |
| [52:42] | Open a window while it’s, like, 40 degrees outside | 打开一扇窗 外面气温四十度 |
| [52:44] | and watch them disappear into themselves. | 然后看着他们汗流浃背 |
| [52:51] | For hours and hours and hours, all you would hear is screaming, banging. | 持续了好几个小时 你只听到尖叫 撞击 |
| [52:57] | When they were done, eight, ten hours later, they’d bring their guy out. | 他们在八到十个小时后结束 把人带出来 |
| [53:02] | They’d be halfway coherent or unconscious. | 他们都神智不清了 |
| [53:07] | Put them back in their cell, and then, “We’ll be back for them tomorrow.” | 把他们放回囚室 然后说 “我们明天再来” |
| [53:11] | I know what it sounds like to hear, you know, skin smacked or punched. | 我知道被打或被揍听起来是什么声音 |
| [53:16] | I know the difference between someone screaming | 我可以分辨某人是因为 |
| [53:18] | because they’re upset | 难过而大叫 |
| [53:20] | and then someone screaming because they’re in pain. | 还是因为痛苦而大叫 |
| [53:22] | You know, I know the difference. | 我分得出来 |
| [53:31] | It was early in the morning | 那是清早 |
| [53:32] | like 4:30, around that time, so everything was silent. | 大约凌晨四点半时 一切都很安静 |
| [53:37] | OGAs were, “Okay, we have another special prisoner here.” | OGA说: “好 我们有另一位特别犯人” |
| [53:41] | He was wearing only a shirt. | 他只穿一件衬衫 |
| [53:45] | So he came in, he was shackled, handcuffed and everything, with a hood on. | 他进来了 戴了脚镣手铐 头上有罩子 |
| [53:52] | When he came in, we didn’t ask, | 他进来时我们没发问 |
| [53:54] | we didn’t ask nobody who this guy was, what he did. That wasn’t our business. | 我们没问这人是谁 做了什么 那不关我们的事 |
| [54:02] | Two soldiers took him straight to the shower | 两名士兵把他直接带进浴室 |
| [54:06] | where he was interrogated by one OGA. | 由一位OGA人员审讯 |
| [54:12] | He was there quite a while. | 他在里面待了很久 |
| [54:13] | I think he was there about an hour and a half. | 我想大概有一个半小时 |
| [54:20] | All of a sudden, the OGA guy opened the door and said, | 突然 OGA人员打开门说 |
| [54:24] | “Can you help me here? | “能不能帮个忙? |
| [54:26] | “Tie him a little higher ’cause he don’t want to cooperate now. | “把他挂高点 因为他不肯合作 |
| [54:30] | “He’s, I guess…” | “他就一直…” |
| [54:33] | You know, he was just sagging. | 他就全身软垂着 |
| [54:37] | There were some CIA guys there. I think they were CIA. Well, yeah, they were. | 那里有几个中情局的人 我猜他们是 对 |
| [54:42] | But at the time, we didn’t know what agency they were with. | 但当时我们不知道他们属于哪个单位 |
| [54:47] | They asked us to handcuff him to the window, so he has to hold himself up | 他们要我们把他铐在窗户上 以便把身体撑起来 |
| [54:51] | ’cause he was playing possum. Now I’m just holding him by the jumpsuit. | 因为他在装死 我抓着他的连身衣 |
| [54:55] | I’m not holding him under the arms or anything. | 我并没有扶他腋下之类的 |
| [54:59] | And his jumpsuit is riding up his crotch | 连身衣拖住胯下部位 |
| [55:03] | and I commented and said, you know, | 我说 |
| [55:06] | “Damn, this guy’s pretty good at playing possum.” | “妈的 这人装死装得真像” |
| [55:08] | ‘Cause I know I’d be howling like a, you know, | 因为换成是我 可能会大叫吧 |
| [55:11] | whatever with this riding up my crotch like his jumpsuit was. | 只要有东西像他的连身衣那样卡在我胯下的话 |
| [55:16] | Everybody just kind of laughed and nobody really thought anything of it. | 大家都在笑 没人多想 |
| [55:19] | And I remember how, like, far back his arms were going | 我记得他的手臂弯得很后面 |
| [55:23] | and it was just a really awkward position. | 那姿势真的很怪 |
| [55:26] | Again, you know, I was like, “You know, this guy’s pretty damn good | 我又想: “这人真的很厉害 |
| [55:32] | “’cause, you know, his arms are almost about to break. | “因为他的手臂几乎快折断了 |
| [55:35] | “I’m surprised they haven’t broken. I’m waiting for the pop.” | “手没断我真惊讶 我等着听断裂声” |
| [55:39] | And then all of a sudden, just like, I guess, | 然后突然间 |
| [55:42] | blood started pouring out of his nose and mouth. | 鲜血开始从他鼻子和嘴角流下 |
| [55:45] | And so we realized something was, you know, was wrong. | 我们这才发觉事情不对 |
| [55:49] | That’s when I went and raised the hood. And that’s the first time I saw his face. | 就在那时我上前掀开头盖 那是我第一次看到他的脸 |
| [55:57] | I was surprised ’cause his face was totally messed up. | 我很惊讶他的脸被毁得如此不堪 |
| [56:00] | He got huge black eyes with bruises everywhere. | 有个大黑眼圈 到处是瘀青 |
| [56:05] | And I was like, “Whoa, what happened to this guy?” | 我心想: “他是被怎么了?” |
| [56:09] | And then one of his eye was open. | 然后他的一只眼睛张开了 |
| [56:12] | So I kind of, like, did the thing like Pierce so he could move his eyes. | 我对他虚劈一刀 好让他移动目光 |
| [56:18] | And nothing. He was just looking down like this. | 什么也没有 他就一直往下看 |
| [56:21] | And I was, “Whoa, this guy’s… This guy is not even alive.” | 我想: “这个人…他根本就死了” |
| [56:35] | This whole time we were messing with this guy, you know, carrying him and lifting him | 我们在折磨他 扛他 背他 |
| [56:38] | and this entire time the guy was dead. | 这整段时间里 他都是死的 |
| [56:48] | I even got some blood on my uniform ’cause he was dripping. | 我的制服上甚至有血 因为他在滴血 |
| [56:56] | It kind of felt bad, you know, ’cause I’m like, I know I’m not part of this, | 那感觉很糟 我虽然没有参与 |
| [57:01] | but, you know | 可是… |
| [57:03] | But it kind of make you feel like you are ’cause you’re there with the guy. | 你会觉得好像有参与 因为你当时跟那个人在一起 |
| [57:09] | Colonel Jordan, he was in charge of the MIs, | 乔丹上校负责军事情报单位 |
| [57:14] | he came in, the medics came in, Captain Reese came in | 他进来 带了医兵 瑞斯队长也来了 |
| [57:19] | Captain Brinson, the first sergeant, Sergeant Snider, everybody showed up. | 布林森队长 一等中士 史奈德中士 大家都来了 |
| [57:23] | You had the entire chain of command right there, | 所有指挥官都到了 |
| [57:26] | trying to figure out what was going on. | 想弄清楚怎么回事 |
| [57:29] | We checked him and, you know, sure enough he had died. | 我们检查他 他无疑是死了 |
| [57:34] | And we kind of… | 我们有点… |
| [57:38] | I don’t know, I walked out of the room, just kind of like, you know… | 我不知道 我走出房间 有点… |
| [57:42] | You know, like nothing happened. And then I asked one of the CIA agents | 像是什么都没发生过 然后我问其中一位中情局人员 |
| [57:48] | you know, I was like, “Well, what do you guys normally do | “你们通常怎么 |
| [57:51] | “in a situation like this?” | “处理这种情况?” |
| [57:52] | They were kind of, not panicky | 他们一点都不紧张 |
| [57:55] | but, you know, they were on their phones calling | 但都在打电话 |
| [58:00] | whoever, to see how to, you know, see what to do or what not. | 打给某人看看该怎么做 |
| [58:06] | Well, what do we do with him? | 那我们怎么处理他呢? |
| [58:08] | We can’t take him out in a body bag ’cause that may start a riot. | 我们不能把他用尸袋装起来送到外面 可能会引起暴动 |
| [58:13] | So we had to keep him there overnight. And so we got a body bag. | 因此我们得让他在里面过夜 我们拿出一个尸袋 |
| [58:20] | We got a bunch of ice. Iced him down. | 拿出好几袋冰把他冷藏起来 |
| [58:25] | Left him in the room where he was at. And then we shut and locked the door. | 把他留在原本那间房里 然后关门 上锁 |
| [58:51] | I remember saying to the NCO, | 我记得对士官说 |
| [58:53] | “You need to take the spare key and hold on to it | “你拿好这把备用钥匙 看好它 |
| [58:56] | “or someone will probably go in there and, you know, mess with him.” | “否则可能会有人进去胡搞” |
| [58:59] | We should have just taken both keys | 我们真该把两把钥匙都拿走 |
| [59:01] | and held on to them instead of leaving one there. | 看好钥匙 而不是留一把下来 |
| [59:04] | But I guess he, you know, had to leave one there | 但我猜他一定得留一付下来 |
| [59:07] | in case they wanted to come take the body that night or something. | 以免晚上想把尸体运出去等等 |
| [59:12] | It was pretty much supposed to be, you know, hush-hush. | 那本该是秘密 |
| [59:15] | Didn’t want the word to spread around. | 不想让别人知道 |
| [59:25] | “It was a crazy day yesterday. The guy they brought in died. | “昨天真是疯狂 他们带进来的人死了 |
| [59:29] | “He was beat pretty bad. I’m not sure what happened. | “他被殴打得很严重 我不确定发生了什么事 |
| [59:34] | “It was on the shift before us. | “那是我们之前那一班做的 |
| [59:38] | “They stuck him in a room next to where I was working last night | “他们把他关进我昨晚工作的房间隔壁 |
| [59:42] | “and put him in a body bag on ice. How fucking gross. | “把他放在尸袋里 上面压冰块 真是恶心 |
| [59:54] | “He’s already been defrosting for 24 hours.” | “他已经解冻了24小时” |
| [59:59] | Captain Brinson had a meeting in the main office with all of us. | 布林森队长在大办公室 跟我们所有人开了一次会 |
| [1:00:04] | And he said that there was a prisoner who had died in the shower | 他说有位犯人死在浴室 |
| [1:00:08] | and he died of a heart attack. | 死因是心脏病发 |
| [1:00:19] | Sergeant Frederick got the key, and we just checked him out. | 佛德列克中士拿了钥匙 我们去检查 |
| [1:00:32] | He started to melt, and it started to smell. | 尸体开始腐败 味道很难闻 |
| [1:00:38] | He was there for at least 24 hours prior to us getting there. | 他在我们过去以前 已经在那里超过24小时了 |
| [1:00:43] | So he was there for a pretty long time. | 所以他在那里很久了 |
| [1:01:12] | His knees were bruised, his thighs were bruised by his genitals. | 他的膝盖有瘀青 生殖器旁的大腿有瘀青 |
| [1:01:17] | He had restraint marks on his wrists. | 手腕上有勒痕 |
| [1:01:23] | It was kind of obvious, after you just kept looking | 你只要仔细看就能很明显看出 |
| [1:01:25] | that there was no way he died of a heart attack. | 他绝对不是死于心脏病 |
| [1:01:49] | You’ve gotten into trouble because of the thumb. | 你因为比大拇指而惹上麻烦 |
| [1:01:53] | I can understand. It does look really bad. | 我可以理解 看起来真的很糟 |
| [1:01:56] | But whenever I would get into a photo, I never know what to do with my hands. | 但只要是拍照 我都不知道该把手放哪里 |
| [1:02:01] | Any kind of photo, I probably have a thumbs-up, | 不管什么照片 我大概都会比大拇指 |
| [1:02:04] | ’cause it’s just something that automatically happens. | 因为那是自动反应 |
| [1:02:09] | Like when you get into a photo, you wanna smile. | 就像你被人拍照 就会想笑 |
| [1:02:11] | It’s just, I guess, something I did. | 我想我就会比大拇指 |
| [1:02:22] | He was a ghost detainee, so he wasn’t supposed to be there. | 他是鬼魂犯人 所以他本来就不该在的 |
| [1:02:26] | They didn’t want him to be in there when the Red Cross came | 红十字会的人来时 他们不想要他在 |
| [1:02:29] | so we had to do something. | 所以我们得想办法 |
| [1:02:30] | So someone came up with the idea to take him out of the body bag, | 有人想到一个点子 把他用尸袋装起来 |
| [1:02:36] | dress him in the orange jumpsuit, put his dead body on a gurney, | 替他穿橘色连身衣 把尸体放在轮床上 |
| [1:02:40] | stick a IV in his dead arm and take him out of the facility. | 把点滴插进他的手臂里 然后就把他推出去 |
| [1:02:48] | From that point on, we never heard anything of it. It was just… | 从那时起我们就再也没听说这件事了 |
| [1:02:52] | The guy died, they put him in a body bag, put him on a gurney, he was gone. | 这人死了 他们把他装进尸袋 放上轮床 就走了 |
| [1:02:56] | Go about your business, keep working. | 回去做份内的事 继续工作 |
| [1:02:59] | Disappeared. He dissolved into thin air. | 消失了 他消失在空气中 |
| [1:03:04] | They tried to charge me with destruction of government property | 他们想控诉我破坏政府公物 |
| [1:03:08] | which I don’t understand | 这我就不懂了 |
| [1:03:09] | and then maltreatment of taking the photos of a dead guy. | 又控告我粗暴地替死人拍照 |
| [1:03:14] | But he’s dead. I don’t know how that’s maltreatment. | 但他都死了 我怎么对他粗暴? |
| [1:03:16] | And then altering evidence | 还有扭曲证据 |
| [1:03:18] | for removing the bandage from his eye to take a photo of it | 把他眼睛上的绷带拿掉好拍照 |
| [1:03:23] | and then I placed it back. | 然后再放回去 |
| [1:03:25] | When he died, they cleaned him all up and then stuck the bandages on. | 他死了以后 他们把他清干净 然后把绷带放上去 |
| [1:03:29] | So it’s not really altering evidence. They had already done that for me. | 所以那不算扭曲证据 就算有也是他们先的 |
| [1:03:32] | In order to make the other charges stick, they were gonna have to bring in the photos | 为了让其它控诉成立 他们本来要带照片来的 |
| [1:03:36] | which they didn’t want to bring up the dead guy at all, the OGA, | 但他们不想提及那个死人 OGA的事 |
| [1:03:39] | ’cause obviously they covered up a murder and that would just make them look bad. | 因为显然他们掩盖了一场谋杀 有照片会让他们更难看 |
| [1:03:44] | So they dropped all the charges pertaining to the OGA in the shower. | 于是他们放弃所有有关 OGA 在浴室的控诉 |
| [1:04:07] | Camp Ganci had a huge riot. | 甘西营区发生大暴动 |
| [1:04:11] | It was a female MP. | 是一位女宪兵 |
| [1:04:13] | She got smashed in the face with, like, a cinder block or something like that. | 她脸上被砖块之类的东西砸到 |
| [1:04:16] | They were gonna break out of the tent encampments, | 他们要打破帐篷营地 |
| [1:04:20] | get the MPs, and hold them hostage. | 抓宪兵当人质 |
| [1:04:22] | We brought them down the hallway, put them on the floor. | 我们把他们带到走廊 叫他们趴在地上 |
| [1:04:25] | That’s where I come in. | 我那时候进去的 |
| [1:04:27] | I can’t go to sleep at night | 我晚上睡不着 |
| [1:04:29] | worrying about the detainees trying to kill me | 担心犯人要杀我 |
| [1:04:32] | when I got people outside the walls trying to kill me. | 同时墙外也有人想杀我 |
| [1:04:35] | This has got to stop. These guys are gonna have to… | 这必须被制止 这些人得… |
| [1:04:37] | They got to know. So I lost it. | 他们要知道 所以我发飙了 |
| [1:04:41] | Threw the guys on the floor, I fell on the pile, | 把他们推倒在地 倒在人堆上 |
| [1:04:43] | did like a WWF, you know, just jumped on them a little bit. | 在他们身上压 跳了一下 |
| [1:04:48] | I wanted to do more, I was mad. | 我想多跳几下 我很生气 |
| [1:04:51] | I’m like, “You done hurt one of our soldiers, like, that’s it.” | 我说: “你休想再伤害我们的士兵” |
| [1:04:54] | So I stepped on the finger, stepped on the guy’s finger, | 我踩上那人的手指 |
| [1:04:56] | stepped on the guy’s toe. | 踩上那人的脚趾 |
| [1:04:58] | I wanted to hurt him, | 我想伤他 |
| [1:05:01] | the gentleman who hit the female in the face with the brick. | 伤那个用砖块打伤女人脸的男人 |
| [1:05:03] | I wanted to hurt him really bad. | 我想重重伤他 |
| [1:05:06] | I finished my day in the motor pool and I had generator detail that night. | 我做完在车辆调配厂的工作 当晚要微调发电机 |
| [1:05:11] | Just sitting there at night, it gets very boring. | 晚上坐在那里非常无聊 |
| [1:05:16] | Computer system was very slow. I was waiting for e-mail to come up. | 电脑系统很慢 我在等电子邮件 |
| [1:05:21] | And Sergeant Frederick walked in. He had to print out some papers and stuff. | 佛德列克中士走进来 他要列印几张文件之类的 |
| [1:05:24] | And we started talking. He got a call on the radio | 我们开始聊天 有人在无线电上找他 |
| [1:05:27] | that he had some individuals he had to in-process. | 说有几名犯人得让他归档 |
| [1:05:30] | He said, “Come on, you walk down to the holding cell with me.” | 他说: “来 你跟我一起到拘留室去” |
| [1:05:32] | So I walked down with him. And they had the seven individuals there. | 于是我跟他去了 那里有七个人 |
| [1:05:36] | And I said, “Hey, Freddy, | 我说: “佛莱迪 |
| [1:05:38] | “you want me to grab one of the detainees and take him down for you?” | “你要我把其中一个犯人抓下来给你吗?” |
| [1:05:42] | He said, “Yeah, go ahead.” | 他说: “好 去吧” |
| [1:05:44] | And as I’m getting closer to Tier 1 Alpha, I could hear Graner yelling. | 我靠近区一甲时 听到格拉纳在吼 |
| [1:05:47] | And I’m like, “Where do you guys want him?” | 我心想: “你们要我把人带去哪里?” |
| [1:05:50] | They said, “Just put him on the floor.” | 他们说: “放在地上就好” |
| [1:05:52] | So I pushed him onto the floor with the other guys. | 于是我把他推倒在地 跟其他人在一起 |
| [1:05:56] | And that’s when all the pictures and stuff started happening. | 就在那时有人开始拍照 |
| [1:06:01] | That’s when Javal was stepping on the fingers and stuff and on the toes, | 贾佛在那时踩上他们的手指 脚趾 |
| [1:06:06] | and Lynndie was also. | 琳狄也是 |
| [1:06:08] | And that’s when all the pictures started | 他们就在那时拍照 |
| [1:06:10] | and Graner asked me to take the staged photo | 格拉纳要我拍几张姿势照 |
| [1:06:15] | of him with the one detainee where he was cradling the detainee’s head | 照片里有他跟一个犯人 他摇晃犯人的头 |
| [1:06:20] | and he was acting like he was gonna strike the detainee. | 好像想揍对方那样 |
| [1:06:27] | Never struck him. | 但他并没有揍 |
| [1:06:29] | As soon as I took the photograph, he laid the detainee down. | 我一拍完照 他就把人放下了 |
| [1:06:36] | And then they start the stripping of the detainees | 然后他们开始剥光犯人的衣服 |
| [1:06:42] | and taking more photographs. | 拍更多照片 |
| [1:06:45] | Graner walks over to one of the detainees, punches him in the temple, | 格拉纳走向其中一名犯人 对他的太阳穴揍了一拳 |
| [1:06:49] | for what reason, I don’t know. | 我不知道是为什么 |
| [1:06:52] | I mean, hits the detainee hard. | 重重打了那个犯人 |
| [1:06:57] | And, after he does that, Sabrina matches up the numbers, | 之后 塞布丽娜才弄清楚 |
| [1:07:02] | says, “This guy’s in here for rape.” | 说: “这个人因强暴入狱” |
| [1:07:06] | So Graner rips the leg open on the jumpsuit that he had. | 格拉纳扯破犯人的连身衣腿部 |
| [1:07:11] | Sabrina writes, “I am a rapeist,” on him. | 塞布丽娜在犯人腿上写”我是强暴犯” |
| [1:07:17] | The guy hasn’t moved for, like, two or three minutes. | 那个人有两三分钟都没动 |
| [1:07:21] | I kind of look at him and I said, | 我看着他 说 |
| [1:07:23] | “Hey, Grane, something’s wrong with that guy.” | “格拉纳 这人不大对劲” |
| [1:07:27] | And I walked over and I lifted the sandbag, up to where I could see his eyes. | 我走过去 拉起沙包好看他眼睛 |
| [1:07:32] | The guy was unconscious. I said, “Graner, you knocked that dude out.” | 那人已失去意识 我说: “格拉纳 你把这人打昏了” |
| [1:07:39] | And he kind of shook his… | 他就甩了甩… |
| [1:07:41] | And after he punched him, he kind of shook his hand | 他揍了他后 就甩了甩手 |
| [1:07:42] | and he said, “Ouch! Damn, that hurt.” | 说: “妈的 好痛” |
| [1:07:46] | And he didn’t seem too concerned about it. | 看起来不怎么在乎 |
| [1:07:52] | And then I walked back over by Freddy. We were standing there. | 然后我走到佛莱迪那边站着 |
| [1:07:56] | And Freddy looks at me and he says, “Hey, watch this.” | 佛莱迪看着我说: “你看喔” |
| [1:08:01] | Goes over, gets the guy that I escorted down, | 他走过去 拉起我带来的那个人 |
| [1:08:06] | lifts the guy up, marks an “X” on his chest | 把他拉起来 在胸口上画了一个叉 |
| [1:08:10] | punches the guy right square in the chest. | 然后在那里打了一拳 |
| [1:08:14] | I’m like, “What? | 我想: “什么? |
| [1:08:19] | “Who are you and what did you do with Freddy?” | “你是谁 把佛莱迪怎么了?” |
| [1:08:26] | Then they started the whole one facing the wall on his knees | 然后他们开始叫人跪着面对墙壁 |
| [1:08:31] | and setting the other one on top of him. | 叫另一人坐在上面 |
| [1:08:39] | They had flex-cuffs, which are, more or less, big zip ties. | 他们都被塑胶圈绑着 绑得非常紧 |
| [1:08:45] | And I told Graner, “This guy’s gonna lose his hands | 我告诉格拉纳: “如果我们不解开绳圈 |
| [1:08:48] | “if we don’t get them off of him. They’re purple.” | “这个人的手可能保不住 都变成紫色了” |
| [1:08:51] | I said, “Well, I got my Gerber on me. “I can probably get them with that | 我说: “我身上有瑞士刀 可以割绳子 |
| [1:08:55] | “but we’re gonna have to stand him up.” | “但我们得让他站起来” |
| [1:08:58] | It took a little while, but I finally got them off of him | 花了一点时间 但我把绳圈割断了 |
| [1:09:01] | and then the blood started flowing back in his hands. | 然后血开始流回他手上 |
| [1:09:04] | And as far as I know, the guy kept his hands. | 据我所知 那人的手是保住了 |
| [1:09:08] | That’s when Graner and Freddy started with the human pyramid thing. | 就在那时格拉纳和佛莱迪 开始做人体金字塔 |
| [1:09:13] | Graner told me that he was doing what he was told | 格拉纳说他是听命行事的 |
| [1:09:19] | that’s why he was doing it. | 所以才会那么做 |
| [1:09:21] | And as I was leaving the tier that night, I was told that I didn’t see shit. | 当天晚上我离开时 他们提醒我 我什么都没看到 |
| [1:09:25] | And me being the person that I am, I try to be friends with everybody. | 而我这人的个性就是想跟所有人当朋友 |
| [1:09:31] | I said, “See what? I didn’t see nothing.” | 我说: “看到什么? 我什么也没看到” |
| [1:09:37] | I was always asked by CID, | 总有刑事局的人问我 |
| [1:09:41] | “Why didn’t you report this? Didn’t I feel that it was morally wrong?” | “你为什么不报告此事? 你不觉得那样不道德吗?” |
| [1:09:46] | I said, “Yes, but when you’re in war, things change.” | 我说: “是的 但当你在战争的时候 事情都会变” |
| [1:09:52] | We were told, “No pictures of prisoners.” | 他们说: “不准拍犯人的照片” |
| [1:09:55] | I was asked to take it. I’m a nice guy, so I took it. | 但他们叫我拍照 我是好好先生 就拍了 |
| [1:10:00] | I try not to have anybody mad at me. That’s the way I’ve always been. | 我尽量不要惹任何人 我的个性向来是如此 |
| [1:10:07] | But I guess being a nice guy doesn’t always pay off. | 但我猜当个好好先生并非总能赢得尊敬 |
| [1:10:15] | Some people ask me now why I’m not as nice as what I used to be. | 现在有人会问我 怎么我不像以前那么和善了 |
| [1:10:20] | I say, “Put yourself in my shoes. | 我说: “你我易地而处 |
| [1:10:22] | “Go through what I’ve went through in the last two and half, three years. | “你去经历我在过去两三年内所经历的事 |
| [1:10:26] | “See how nice you’ll be.” | “看看你会变得多和善” |
| [1:10:31] | Sivits just happened to stick around for maybe five minutes. | 席维兹刚好在场 大约五分钟 |
| [1:10:37] | I mean, he never hurt anyone. | 我是说 他从没伤害任何人 |
| [1:10:46] | He got a year in jail for nothing. Just for being there. | 他坐了一年的牢 没有原因 就因为他在那里 |
| [1:10:54] | He shouldn’t have got any time at all. | 他根本不该坐牢的 |
| [1:10:58] | I don’t think he would’ve even been charged if he wasn’t in that video. | 如果他不在录影带里 我不认为他会被判刑 |
| [1:11:06] | -Who took the video? -I did. | -录影带是谁拍的? -我拍的 |
| [1:11:12] | The last thing I remember was one guy standing | 我记得的最后一件事 是有个人站着 |
| [1:11:14] | and one guy kneeling. | 另一人跪着 |
| [1:11:16] | And the one guy had his hand on the other guy’s head. | 一个的手放在另一个的头上 |
| [1:11:21] | And that’s the last photo that I took. | 那是我拍的最后一张照片 |
| [1:11:25] | Then we left to go use the phones. | 然后我们就去打电话了 |
| [1:11:29] | It was Kelly’s birthday, so I went to make a phone call. | 那天是凯莉的生日 所以我去打电话 |
| [1:11:37] | Me and Megan were still upstairs in the office. | 我和梅根还在楼上的办公室 |
| [1:11:41] | And we walked out and they were throwing them into a dogpile | 我们走出来 他们把犯人堆成一堆 |
| [1:11:47] | and taking pictures from the top tier. | 从顶层拍照 |
| [1:11:51] | About that time, Graner and Davis and Frederick | 大约是在那时 格拉纳和戴维斯 还有佛德列克 |
| [1:11:53] | started jumping on the dogpile. | 开始跳上人堆 |
| [1:11:56] | And that’s when I went downstairs with a camera. | 我就在那时带着相机下楼 |
| [1:11:59] | Graner said he wanted some taken down there, too. | 格拉纳说他想在下面拍几张 |
| [1:12:05] | Me, Freddy and Sabrina were taking pictures, | 我 佛莱迪和塞布丽娜都在拍照 |
| [1:12:08] | three different cameras that night. | 那天晚上有三台相机 |
| [1:12:20] | They were lined up against the wall, and Graner started taking them one by one. | 他们在墙上排成一排 格拉纳开始一个个的拍照 |
| [1:12:28] | We didn’t know what he was doing. | 我们不知道他在做什么 |
| [1:12:32] | Nobody knew. He didn’t say anything. | 没人知道 他什么也没说 |
| [1:12:35] | And then he told us that he was piling them in a pyramid. | 然后他说他要把他们堆成金字塔 |
| [1:12:40] | And we’re like, “Okay, why?” | 我们想: “为什么?” |
| [1:12:43] | He’s like, “To control them, so they’re all in one area.” | 他说: “好控制他们 让他们待在同一个地方” |
| [1:12:49] | So we’re like, “Okay.” | 我们说: “哦” |
| [1:13:53] | Freddy is the one that started them masturbating. | 开始叫他们自慰的是佛莱迪 |
| [1:13:58] | I don’t know why, but he did. | 我也不知道为什么 |
| [1:14:00] | He started the one and then he wanted to see if the others would do it too, I guess. | 他先叫一人自慰 接着又想看看其它人是否也会做 |
| [1:14:05] | I don’t know. | 我不知道 |
| [1:14:06] | But he had them all doing it at the same time. | 但他叫所有犯人都一起做 |
| [1:14:18] | At one point, six of the guys stopped | 后来 有六个人停止了 |
| [1:14:22] | and the one guy kept doing it for like 45 minutes. | 一个却仍持续做了45分钟 |
| [1:14:28] | No joke. | 是真的 |
| [1:14:32] | The one guy that was still masturbating, that was the one picture with me in it. | 那个还在自慰的人 我跟他合拍了一张 |
| [1:14:36] | He wanted me in it, and I didn’t want to be in it. | 他要我在照片里 我并不想 |
| [1:14:38] | I was like, “I’m not going over there.” | 我说: “我不想过去” |
| [1:14:40] | -Who wanted you in it? -Freddy. | -谁要你去合照? -佛莱迪 |
| [1:14:44] | And then Graner joined in. Graner was like, “Yeah, just come on.” | 然后格拉纳也跟着起哄 说: “快去嘛” |
| [1:14:47] | I was like, “No, I don’t want to go over there.” | 我说: “不要 我不想过去” |
| [1:14:49] | And he’s like, “Come on, just do it for me,” | 他说: “拜托 就算是为了我吧” |
| [1:14:51] | and this and that. And I’m like, “Fine.” | 他说了一堆 我就想: “好吧” |
| [1:15:01] | Was this your birthday? | 那天是你生日吗? |
| [1:15:05] | They brought them in after midnight. So, yeah. | 他们是午夜后把人带来的 所以是我生日 |
| [1:15:14] | -Which birthday? -21st. | -几岁生日? -二十一岁 |
| [1:15:20] | I had heard Graner saying, “Well, this is your birthday present,” | 我听到格拉纳说: “这是你的生日礼物” |
| [1:15:23] | or something, and I’m like… | 之类的 我就想… |
| [1:15:27] | I don’t know why he would have said it | 我不懂他为什么会那样说 |
| [1:15:29] | ’cause I really wouldn’t have wanted that, but, yeah. | 因为我真的不想要那种礼物 |
| [1:15:33] | I mean, he used me. | 他利用了我 |
| [1:15:35] | And even though I was stupid enough to fall for it. | 虽然是我蠢得去相信他 |
| [1:15:37] | I mean, now I’ll know what to look for. | 现在我知道该找怎样的人了 |
| [1:15:42] | Least he’s moved on past me. | 至少他已成为过去了 |
| [1:15:52] | This was the infamous seven-man naked-Iraqi stacking. | 这就是恶名昭彰的裸体七人组 |
| [1:15:59] | The facial expressions kind of set the tone | 脸上的表情说明了 |
| [1:16:01] | for what they were thinking and feeling at the time. | 他们当时心中的想法和感觉 |
| [1:16:05] | You look in their eyes, and it looked like they’re having fun. | 你看着他们眼睛 看得出来他们乐在其中 |
| [1:16:09] | This scene is what sealed their fate. | 这一幕决定了他们的命运 |
| [1:16:13] | Pretty much everybody that participated is in the photograph at one time or another. | 差不多所有人都在这张或那张照片里 |
| [1:16:20] | Here you see Graner in a punching motion. | 你看到格拉纳摆出揍人姿势 |
| [1:16:24] | Two cameras actually caught him at the exact same time | 两台相机在同一时间拍到他 |
| [1:16:26] | from two totally different angles. | 从两个不同的角度 |
| [1:16:31] | And again you see it where they had the seven men stacked naked | 现在你又看到 他们叫七个裸体犯人堆在一起 |
| [1:16:35] | with the hoods over their heads. | 头上都戴了头罩 |
| [1:16:40] | You actually see both of the cameras inside each of the pictures. | 你在这两张照片里都能看到两台相机 |
| [1:16:51] | It’s not so much that you’re there committing these acts of abuse. | 重点不是你在那里施加暴行 |
| [1:16:56] | If you’re in the pictures while this stuff was going on, | 如果照片拍摄当时你在场 |
| [1:16:58] | -you were gonna be in trouble. -Big trouble. | -你就有麻烦了 -大麻烦 |
| [1:17:02] | If you make our President apologize to the world, I would say so, yeah. | 如果你害我们总统向世界道歉 我会说是大麻烦 |
| [1:17:10] | “I haven’t slept all night. I just can’t sleep. Six prisoners escaped last night. | “我整夜没睡 睡不着 昨晚有六个犯人逃跑 |
| [1:17:17] | “That’s eight we’ve lost in three nights. Something bad is going to happen here. | “三天晚上以来已经跑了八人 这里会发生不好的事 |
| [1:17:22] | “I hope I’m wrong, but if not, know I love you. | “希望是我错了 如果不是 记住我爱你 |
| [1:17:29] | “We might be under investigation. There’s talk about it. | “我们可能会被调查 有谣言这么说 |
| [1:17:37] | “Yes, they do beat the prisoners. I don’t think it’s right and never have. | “对 他们的确有殴打犯人 我从来不认为那样是对的 |
| [1:17:43] | “That’s why I take the pictures to prove the story I tell people. | “所以我才拍照 替我告诉别人的事作证 |
| [1:17:51] | “No one would ever believe the shit that goes on. No one. | “没有人会相信发生的事 没有人 |
| [1:17:57] | “If I want to keep taking pictures of these events, | “如果我想继续拍这些照片 |
| [1:18:00] | “I have to fake a smile every time. | “我每次都得装出笑容 |
| [1:18:05] | “I hope I do not get into trouble for something that I haven’t done. | “希望我不会因为我没做的事而惹上麻烦 |
| [1:18:14] | “I love you. Sabrina.” | “我爱你 塞布丽娜笔” |
| [1:18:21] | I guess reality hit that what was going on wasn’t right | 我猜事实呈现了 发生的事情是不对的 |
| [1:18:25] | which, of course, you know from the beginning, | 这你当然一开始就知道了 |
| [1:18:27] | but then it’s your job. I mean, there’s really nothing. | 但那是你的工作 没有其它理由 |
| [1:18:32] | You can’t just walk away and say, “Hey, I’m not coming back,” | 你不能走开 然后说 “我不回来了” |
| [1:18:35] | or “I’m not doing this.” | 或 “我才不要做” |
| [1:18:36] | ‘Cause either way, you’re gonna get screwed. | 因为不管怎样 你都会有麻烦 |
| [1:19:18] | We had a Iraqi prison guard smuggle in a pistol, a 9mm | 有一个伊拉克狱官 偷拿了一把9毫米口径的手枪 |
| [1:19:24] | and a brand-new bayonet. | 和一把全新的刺刀 |
| [1:19:26] | The prison guard wrapped it up in a sheet | 狱官把东西用床单包住 |
| [1:19:30] | shimmied it up to a cell. | 从外面塞进囚室窗户 |
| [1:19:33] | The detainee went underneath his pillow, pulled out a 9mm, | 犯人悄悄地开了枪 |
| [1:19:42] | hit Sarge Cathcart in the vest. | 击中卡司卡中士的背心 |
| [1:19:58] | Sergeant Elliot had to stick the shotgun inside | 伊略特中士得用一把猎枪指住里面 |
| [1:20:01] | to get the guy to stop shooting. And all he hit him in was the leg | 才能让他停止射击 他只射中他的腿 |
| [1:20:05] | ’cause he was in the corner praying, like, “Allah, Allah.” | 因为他在角落里祈祷 “阿拉 阿拉” 叫着 |
| [1:20:09] | And he was willing to die. | 以为自己会死 |
| [1:20:36] | All the Iraqi prison guards that were involved, | 参与此事的所有伊拉克狱官 |
| [1:20:39] | they rounded them all up and fired some, | 都被揪出来 有几个被开除 |
| [1:20:42] | but the Iraqis hired them right back. | 但伊拉克人立刻又雇用他们 |
| [1:20:46] | Not only did you have to risk your life from the shelling on the outside, | 你不只要冒生命危险 躲避外面的炮火 |
| [1:20:51] | you was risking your life | 还要冒着危险 |
| [1:20:52] | dealing with the unscreened Iraqi corrections guards. | 应付未经筛选的伊拉克狱官 |
| [1:20:57] | You know. And the detainees. | 还有犯人 |
| [1:20:59] | So strike one, two and three. One of them is going to take you out. | 所以敌人有三类 总有一类会杀掉你 |
| [1:21:03] | Not all of them were bad, but a vast majority were bad. | 他们并非全是坏人 但绝大多数人是 |
| [1:21:09] | The guy who smuggled in the pistol, | 偷拿手枪的那人 |
| [1:21:11] | I thought was a good guy. I thought was a good guard. | 我以为他是好人 是个好狱官 |
| [1:21:14] | He turned out to be Fedayeen. Smile in your face, stab you in the back. | 结果却是游击队员 面带微笑地从背后捅你一刀 |
| [1:21:20] | They rushed in right away and took care of this guy | 他们立刻冲进来 把这个想杀我们的人 |
| [1:21:23] | who had just tried to kill us. So… | 给杀了 所以… |
| [1:21:29] | But it doesn’t appear when you see a picture that that’s what happened. | 但你看照片时却看不出来发生的事 |
| [1:21:51] | Your imagination can run wild when you just see blood. | 你看到血 就发挥想像力 |
| [1:21:59] | The pictures only show you a fraction of a second. | 照片只能给你看一秒钟的刹那 |
| [1:22:04] | You don’t see forward and you don’t see backward. | 你没看到前面和后面 |
| [1:22:06] | You don’t see outside the frame. | 看不到照片以外的事 |
| [1:22:33] | “This is the first time I’ve seen military police dogs here. | “这是我第一次看到宪兵队的狗 |
| [1:22:37] | “Two dogs with two owners go to the man against the wall. | “两只狗和两个主人来到墙边的男人面前 |
| [1:22:45] | “The guy is scared out of his mind. The dogs get closer. | “那人吓坏了 狗靠得更近 |
| [1:22:51] | “The Iraqi starts screaming and runs straight to Graner. | “那个伊拉克人开始尖叫 直直朝格拉纳跑去 |
| [1:22:54] | “And one of the guys lets his dog loose enough to bite him in the leg. | “其中一人放开他的狗 好让狗咬他的腿 |
| [1:23:00] | “The guy is hysterical. The dog got another bite. | “那个人发起神经 狗又咬了一口 |
| [1:23:04] | “Blood was everywhere. | “到处都是血 |
| [1:23:06] | “It was teeth marks that looked something like this. | “齿痕看起来像这样 |
| [1:23:09] | “One of our medics came, and he taught me how to give stitches. | “我们有位医务兵过来 他教我怎么缝伤口 |
| [1:23:14] | “It was kind of fun, but I felt horrible for this guy. | “还满好玩的 但我很替那人难过 |
| [1:23:21] | “The dogs should’ve never been there.” | “根本不该找狗来的” |
| [1:23:47] | One of the things an interrogator does every time, | 审讯者每次都会这样做 |
| [1:23:49] | it’s the last paragraph of all your reports, | 而且都写在报告的最后一段里 |
| [1:23:51] | is you evaluate the truthfulness | 就是你要评断所获得信息的 |
| [1:23:55] | and reliability of the information that was just given you. | 真实和可信度 |
| [1:23:56] | That’s the very last paragraph of every report you ever write. | 你写的每份报告最后一段就是那个 |
| [1:23:59] | So if I get information through torture I have no way to verify anything | 所以如果我是透过施虐得到情报 我就无法验证任何事 |
| [1:24:05] | because, well, I would just assume that you’re going to tell me | 因为我会假设你乱说一通 |
| [1:24:08] | whatever the hell you want so the pain stops. | 只求不再痛苦 |
| [1:24:11] | But if I give you some carrots and I give you some reasons | 但如果我给你一些酬报 给你几个理由 |
| [1:24:15] | to cooperate with me, | 让你跟我合作 |
| [1:24:18] | usually you’re going to get more righteous information. | 通常会得到比较正确的情报 |
| [1:24:22] | General Sanchez routinely subjected Colonel Pappas | 山查斯将军习惯性地对帕帕斯上校 |
| [1:24:27] | to this finger pointing, poking a finger in his chest | 用手指戳他胸口 |
| [1:24:31] | and saying, “I want Saddam. Find Saddam! Find Saddam! Do you understand me? | 并说: “我要萨达姆 去找萨达姆! 去找萨达姆! 你懂吗? |
| [1:24:37] | “Find Saddam! Find Saddam at whatever the cost.” | “去找萨达姆 不计代价” |
| [1:24:42] | If you poke your finger in somebody’s chest long enough, | 如果你长时间用手指戳人 |
| [1:24:46] | they’ll do whatever they need to do to get you to stop doing that. | 他们会想尽办法去达成 好让你别再戳他们 |
| [1:24:51] | It’s a downward spiral. | 真是道德堕落 |
| [1:24:53] | “This isn’t working. Try this. This worked in Gitmo. | “这样没用 试试这个 这在关塔那摩湾有用 |
| [1:24:58] | “This worked in Bagram. Try this. It’s okay.” | “在巴格拉姆有用 试试看 没关系” |
| [1:25:05] | It doesn’t stop the mortars, doesn’t get the information they want | 它不会停止炮火 不会让他们得到情报 |
| [1:25:10] | and it doesn’t find Saddam. | 也不会找到萨达姆 |
| [1:25:14] | It wasn’t any information they obtained in any interrogation | 他们在阿布格莱布透过审讯或访谈 |
| [1:25:17] | or interview out at Abu Ghraib. | 没有得到任何情报 |
| [1:25:19] | It was soldiers on the ground who found Saddam. | 是那里的士兵找到萨达姆的 |
| [1:25:25] | You ready for this? The farm that Saddam was hiding on, | 准备好了吗? 萨达姆藏匿的农场 |
| [1:25:30] | a little tiny farm right next to< the Tigris River. | 是在底格里斯河旁边的小农场 |
| [1:25:32] | Saddam knocked on the door, | 萨达姆敲门 |
| [1:25:35] | and he said, “I’m Saddam Hussein. I’m the President of Iraq. | 说: “我是萨达姆 伊拉克总统 |
| [1:25:40] | “I am the leader of Iraq and all the people of Iraq are my people. | “我是伊拉克的首领 这些人都是我的人民 |
| [1:25:44] | “All the homes in Iraq are my homes.” | “伊拉克的每户人家都是我的家” |
| [1:25:47] | And he went to the kitchen and he made hisself a single egg | 他走进厨房 拿了个蛋 |
| [1:25:53] | and he ate the egg and he left. | 吃掉蛋就离开了 |
| [1:25:57] | And he came back about four hours later, and he’s like, “I’m staying here.” | 四小时后他又回来 说: “我要待在这里” |
| [1:26:06] | And the dude’s wife, like, freaked. | 那人的妻子吓坏了 |
| [1:26:20] | Saddam was captured on the 13th, Sunday morning. | 萨达姆在13号星期日早上被捕 |
| [1:26:25] | And then on Monday, I had to report to Colonel Pappas’ office. | 到了星期一 我必须跟帕帕斯上校禀报 |
| [1:26:29] | He asked if we wanted to volunteer for a special projects team. | 他问我们是否要志愿参与特别小组 |
| [1:26:33] | He’d just got off the phone with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. | 他刚跟国防部长拉姆斯菲尔德通过电话 |
| [1:26:37] | Rumsfeld and Sanchez had authorized all approach techniques | 拉姆斯菲尔德和山查斯已批准对重犯 |
| [1:26:40] | on the high value detainees. | 施加所有可逼供的手段 |
| [1:26:43] | They said we had the opportunity to break the insurgency right then | 他们说我们当时有机会镇压暴动 |
| [1:26:46] | ’cause of the stuff that was captured with Saddam. | 因为我们有跟萨达姆一起抓到的东西 |
| [1:26:49] | And at that time I believed it. | 那时候我相信了 |
| [1:27:09] | You have to look at exactly what the pictures depict. | 你必须看清楚照片述说的是什么 |
| [1:27:14] | It was important to separate those that were criminal acts | 重要的是把罪行 |
| [1:27:19] | and those things that were not criminal acts. | 跟非罪行分开来 |
| [1:27:21] | And that’s what the prosecution would have to focus on. | 检察当局就会注意这一点 |
| [1:27:31] | If somebody was physically injured, you know you have a criminal act. | 如果有人受了伤 就有罪行 |
| [1:27:42] | Putting somebody into sexually humiliating positions, | 把别人弄成性侵姿势 |
| [1:27:46] | you have a criminal act. | 就是罪行 |
| [1:27:50] | Making them abuse themselves sexually, you have a criminal act. | 让他们对自己性侵 就是罪行 |
| [1:27:58] | Standing by and watching somebody hit their head on the wall | 站着看别人用头撞墙 |
| [1:28:01] | and taking photographs at the time | 同时还照相 |
| [1:28:03] | that’s dereliction of duty, so it’s a criminal act. | 那是怠忽职守 也是罪行 |
| [1:28:14] | The individual with the wires tied to their hands and standing on a box, | 手上缠了电线 站在箱子上的那人 |
| [1:28:19] | I see that as somebody that’s being put into a stress position. | 在我看是一个被人逼着摆出那种姿势的人 |
| [1:28:24] | I’m looking at it, thinking, | 我边看边想 |
| [1:28:26] | “They don’t look like they’re real electrical wires.” | “这些看起来不像真的电线” |
| [1:28:29] | Standard operating procedure. That’s all it is. | 标准流程 就是这个 |
| [1:28:41] | Does this one actually constitute a crime or is it standard operating procedure? | 这一项是否构成罪行 还是只是标准流程呢? |
| [1:28:45] | That’s probably standard operating procedure. | 那可能是标准流程 |
| [1:28:55] | The panties on the head are an added touch, but it’s no more than sleep deprivation. | 头上的内裤是外加的 也不过是剥夺睡眠而已 |
| [1:29:03] | They weren’t being tortured, per se. | 这样看来他们并未受虐 |
| [1:29:07] | They were going through discomfort to try to aid in obtaining information. | 为了协助取得情报 让他们处于不舒服情况 |
| [1:29:17] | I’ve been in the Army for 20 years. You know, I’ve been to Desert Storm One. | 我在军队里待了20年 我去过沙漠风暴一队 |
| [1:29:23] | I spent four months at Guantanamo Bay. | 我在关塔那摩湾待了四个月 |
| [1:29:27] | People that haven’t been where I’ve been | 没去过我去过的那些地方的人 |
| [1:29:29] | I can’t expect them to see the pictures in the same way. | 我无法要求他们以同样的方式来看这些照片 |
| [1:30:03] | I came back from a meeting, it was very late at night. | 我开完会回来 那时已是深夜了 |
| [1:30:05] | I opened my classified e-mail. | 我打开机密信件 |
| [1:30:08] | “Ma’am, just wanted to let you know I’m going in to brief | “长官 我想告诉你 我要去向 |
| [1:30:13] | “the CG on the progress of the investigation at Abu Ghraib. | “指挥官简报阿布格莱布的调查进展 |
| [1:30:19] | “This involves the allegations of abuse and the photographs.” | “包括施虐的主张和照片” |
| [1:30:24] | And I sent an e-mail back to him and I said, | 我回信给他 说 |
| [1:30:26] | “I don’t know what to say. First I’ve heard of it.” | “我不知道该说什么 这是我第一次听到” |
| [1:30:30] | I was preparing in my mind to hold a mini-press conference | 我有心理准备要开小型记者会 |
| [1:30:37] | to tell the truth and to tell it early. | 早早把真相抖出来 |
| [1:30:40] | To say, “This is what we’ve uncovered. | 说: “我们发现了这个 |
| [1:30:43] | “We’re looking into it because we discipline ourselves. | “我们正在调查 因为我们有原则 |
| [1:30:49] | “We’re Americans, and we know right from wrong.” | “我们是美国人 我们知道分辨对错” |
| [1:30:53] | General Sanchez said, “No, absolutely not. | 山查斯将军说: “不 绝对不行 |
| [1:30:56] | You’re not to discuss this with anyone.” | 你不能跟任何人讨论此事” |
| [1:31:01] | The fear of the truth | 对真相的惧怕 |
| [1:31:06] | silenced people. | 让人沉默 |
| [1:31:09] | Everybody knew. Everybody that was inside of that prison | 大家都知道 在那座监狱里待过 住过 |
| [1:31:13] | that stayed there, lived there, worked there, they had the pictures. | 工作过的每个人 他们有照片 |
| [1:31:17] | They would come over and they would get copies from Graner. | 他们会过来 从格拉纳那里拿照片拷贝 |
| [1:31:21] | And he had all these discs so he would make copies. | 他有一大堆磁盘可以拷贝 |
| [1:31:24] | “Well, here you go, here you go, which ones do you want?” | “来 给你 你要哪一张?” |
| [1:31:27] | Everybody had a copy of a picture. Everybody knew. | 大家都有一份照片 大家都知道 |
| [1:31:34] | When those photographs came out, the infamous photographs | 那些恶名昭彰的照片出现后 |
| [1:31:38] | the day after Colonel Pappas issued | 过了一天 帕帕斯上校发布 |
| [1:31:45] | a battalion-wide amnesty period. | 全营特赦 |
| [1:31:50] | Any type of evidence was destroyed. | 任何形式的证据都被摧毁了 |
| [1:31:54] | Burn it, throw it away, erase it off your hard drive | 烧掉 丢掉 从硬盘里删除 |
| [1:31:56] | and be done with it. | 没有了 |
| [1:31:59] | He just wiped out every last single defense witness, | 他排除了每一位目击者 |
| [1:32:04] | every last single person | 每一个可能会 |
| [1:32:06] | that would’ve been available to come forward | 在某一天站出来说 |
| [1:32:08] | and say, “Look, this is what I know,” in one day. | “我知道的事情是这样” |
| [1:32:13] | You know, after the amnesty period, who’s gonna want to come forward? | 特赦期间过后 谁会站出来呢? |
| [1:32:17] | Who’s gonna want to say, “Hey, I know something. | 谁会想说: “我知道一些事 |
| [1:32:20] | “I know what happened”? No one. | “我知道发生了什么” 没有人 |
| [1:32:28] | Find a way to make it go away and that’s what they did. | 他们就这样化解此事 |
| [1:32:36] | Sacrifice the little guys, that’s how they cover it up. | 他们牺牲年轻军官来掩盖这件事 |
| [1:32:51] | I’m a 28-year-old young American. A volunteer soldier. | 我是28岁的美国年轻人 是志愿兵 |
| [1:32:58] | And I’m gonna get everything blamed on me. | 我会被大家责怪 |
| [1:33:07] | “Well, sweetie, you married a criminal. Yep, the pictures are out | “小甜甜 你嫁给了一个罪犯 对 照片都出来了 |
| [1:33:12] | “and I’m under investigation as of 10 a.m. this morning. | “我从今早十点起就被调查了 |
| [1:33:17] | “So much for turning those pictures in when I come home. | “回到家后交出那些照片真是白搭 |
| [1:33:21] | “I knew I’d be in trouble just by being there. | “我就知道光是人在那里 就足以惹上麻烦 |
| [1:33:26] | “But how else would you let people know the shit the Army does? | “但还有什么办法能让大家知道军队里发生的鸟事? |
| [1:33:35] | “You think I’d be scared, but I’m not. | “你以为我会害怕 但我不怕 |
| [1:33:39] | “I knew I’d go down with them. | “我知道我会跟他们一起入狱 |
| [1:33:41] | Wrong place, wrong time. | 我出现的地方和时机都不对 |
| [1:33:45] | “What sucks is almost the entire company knows what happened, | “最惨的是 几乎整连人都知道了 |
| [1:33:50] | “have seen the pictures and have done nothing.” | “他们都看过照片 却什么都没做” |
| [1:34:26] | My husband is in prison right now. | 我丈夫现在在坐牢 |
| [1:34:31] | I can’t move on from this until he comes home. | 在他回家以前 我无法从这件事当中解脱 |
| [1:34:35] | So, that’s pretty difficult. | 所以满困难的 |
| [1:34:56] | This huge political monster cost Lynndie England three years, | 这场政治大案使琳狄·英格兰坐牢三年 |
| [1:35:01] | Ivan Frederick eight years and my husband ten years. | 伊凡佛德列克坐牢八年 我丈夫十年 |
| [1:35:09] | When I went through Desert Storm, we were seen as the rescuers, the heroes. | 我跟沙漠风暴在一起时 我们被视为拯救者 英雄 |
| [1:35:13] | Our mission was to reclaim Kuwait. That was something that was honorable. | 我们的任务是取回科威特 那是荣耀的事 |
| [1:35:18] | This war in Iraq, like Vietnam, | 伊拉克的战争 就像越战 |
| [1:35:21] | will probably get remembered as the one time that we not the heroes, | 我们大概会因为这件不是英雄 |
| [1:35:26] | we were not the saviors. | 不是拯救者的事而被人们记住 |
| [1:35:28] | And these photographs will play a big part in that. | 这些照片对这点贡献良多 |
| [1:35:34] | War is a stressful time for people. | 战争是很累人的 |
| [1:35:37] | They were getting shelled on a frequent basis at that prison. | 他们在那座监狱里经常遭到攻击 |
| [1:35:42] | A young person with no experience in the world | 一个毫无经验的年轻人 |
| [1:35:45] | being thrown into something like that may get confused. | 被丢进那种情况可能会迷惘 |
| [1:35:51] | We all say that hindsight is 20-20. | 我们都说 事后都知道该如何避免犯错 |
| [1:35:54] | And I’m sure they all look back realizing what happened was wrong | 我确定他们回想起来 都会明白发生的事情是错误的 |
| [1:35:59] | and they played a part in something that was very embarrassing for the country. | 他们参与了一件事 这件事使国家蒙羞 |
| [1:36:04] | But at the time, they were in a war zone | 但在当时 他们在战区里 |
| [1:36:07] | where the rules get fuzzy sometimes. | 规定在那里有时候变得模糊 |
| [1:36:15] | Lynndie England, I really feel sorry for that gal. | 我非常替琳狄·英格兰感到遗憾 |
| [1:36:18] | It’s obvious she is one of those young people | 她很明显是那些 |
| [1:36:22] | that doesn’t have much experience in life. | 对人生没多少经验的年轻人之一 |
| [1:36:24] | There had been no indication | 没有任何迹象 |
| [1:36:25] | that she would have been involved in anything like this. | 说她参与了这些事 |
| [1:36:28] | But she was in love. | 但她恋爱了 |
| [1:36:31] | Ambuhl. She… | 安部 她… |
| [1:36:36] | Well, she knew when the line was drawn and when it was time for her to disappear. | 她知道界线在哪 知道何时应该消失 |
| [1:36:42] | Because she would be present during some things | 因为她在某些事件中在场 |
| [1:36:44] | and then noticeably absent during others. | 然后在其它事件中却不在 |
| [1:36:48] | So she was probably one of the smarter ones. | 所以她大概是属于比较聪明的 |
| [1:36:55] | In the pictures that came out in the media, all you seen was me. | 被媒体公布的照片中 你只能看到我 |
| [1:37:00] | You didn’t see Megan | 你没看到梅根 |
| [1:37:02] | ’cause that was the cropped picture. | 因为那照片被修剪过 |
| [1:37:07] | Graner told me he just wanted her out of the shot | 格拉纳告诉我 他不想让她进入镜头 |
| [1:37:14] | ’cause it was interfering with, I don’t know, his picture. | 因为那会影响他的照片 |
| [1:37:21] | Maybe it was to secretly protect her | 也许是想偷偷保护她 |
| [1:37:25] | because now that I know that they were closer | 因为现在我知道他们当时 |
| [1:37:29] | than what I thought at the time, maybe he was trying to protect her. | 比我想像中还要亲密 也许他是想保护她 |
| [1:37:36] | When did he find out that you were pregnant? | 他何时发现你怀孕的? |
| [1:37:39] | Well, when I found out on February 20th, | 我在2月20号知道的 |
| [1:37:42] | I come back and I told the First Sergeant Commander. | 我回来 告诉一等士官长 |
| [1:37:45] | And, of course, they wanted to know who the father was. | 当然 他们想知道孩子的父亲是谁 |
| [1:37:48] | So they knew, and then I told him. | 所以他们知道了以后 我告诉了他 |
| [1:37:51] | At first he sounded excited | 一开始他听起来很高兴 |
| [1:37:53] | and then he was just like he didn’t want anything to do with me. | 然后就好像不想跟我扯上关系 |
| [1:37:57] | He didn’t want anything to do with the baby. | 他不想跟婴儿有任何瓜葛 |
| [1:37:59] | Once the story broke, | 事情曝光之后 |
| [1:38:02] | and it came out that I was pregnant, he denied that the baby was his. | 我怀孕的事为人所知后 他否认孩子是他的 |
| [1:38:06] | He was accusing me of cheating on him, which I never did. | 他控诉我欺骗他 但我从来没有 |
| [1:38:13] | So if that’s how he wants to play it, then that’s fine with me. | 所以如果他想这样玩 我也随便 |
| [1:38:18] | He’ll never see him. | 他永远不会见到他 |
| [1:38:23] | It’s his choice. | 那是他的选择 |
| [1:38:29] | I was in the mess hall. I look up | 我在餐厅 抬头看 |
| [1:38:33] | and I saw myself and Dan Rather and I’m like, “What the hell?” | 看到我自己和丹瑞瑟 心想: “怎么了?” |
| [1:38:39] | It’s like, “Javal, Sergeant Javal Davis.” | 就像: “贾佛 贾佛·戴维斯中士” |
| [1:38:43] | I’m like, “Whoa. Yo, that’s me. | 我想: “是我没错 |
| [1:38:46] | “Where the hell did they get this picture from?” | “他们从哪里弄来这张照片的?” |
| [1:38:49] | They went to my high school. | 他们去了我的高中 |
| [1:38:50] | They acquired a picture of me from the newspaper | 从校刊里拿了我的照片 |
| [1:38:54] | when I was running track, going over a hurdle. | 我在跑田径 跑障碍赛的照片 |
| [1:38:58] | They cut my face out and showed me like this. | 他们把我的脸剪掉 让我以这种样子出现 |
| [1:39:02] | But, in actuality, I was jumping over a hurdle. | 但实际上我是在跑障碍赛 |
| [1:39:06] | So they made me look like this mean-ass guy. | 他们却把我弄成好像是大坏蛋 |
| [1:39:09] | They’re showing naked people in a pyramid and then they show a picture of me. | 他们先放出裸体金字塔的照片 然后是我的照片 |
| [1:39:15] | I’m like, “Hold on. If you look at these pictures, | 我想: “等一下 如果你看这些照片 |
| [1:39:17] | “do you see a black guy anywhere in any of these pictures?” | “你看到照片里有黑人吗?” |
| [1:39:21] | There would be no me, no no one else, | 如果没有照片就不会有我 别人 |
| [1:39:25] | no shock-the-world, no scandal, if there wasn’t any photographs. | 不会有世界范围的震惊 丑闻 |
| [1:39:29] | It’d went away, it’d went underneath a rock, and that would have been the end of it. | 事情会消失 不会被发现 然后就这样结束 |
| [1:39:41] | Photographs are what they are. | 照片陈述事实 |
| [1:39:44] | You can interpret them differently, | 你可以用不同方法解读 |
| [1:39:47] | but what the photograph depicts is what it is. | 但照片描绘出发生的事 |
| [1:39:56] | You can put any kind of meaning to it | 你可以替它加上各种含义 |
| [1:39:57] | but you’re seeing what happened at that snapshot in time. | 但你看到的是刹那间发生的事 |
| [1:40:08] | You could read emotion on their face and feelings in their eyes, | 你可以看他们脸上的情感 他们眼睛里的感觉 |
| [1:40:14] | but it’s nothing that can be entered into fact. | 但没一个能被灌输进事实里 |
| [1:40:21] | All you can do is report what’s in the picture. | 你只能拿照片里的事去禀报 |
| [1:40:27] | Somebody caught our administration with their pants down. That’s it. | 有人让我们的行政单位出丑 就这样 |
| [1:40:31] | They’re pissed off at that. | 他们很生气 |
| [1:40:32] | You can kill people off-camera. | 你可以在镜头外杀人 |
| [1:40:34] | You can shoot people. You can, you know, blow their heads off. | 可以开枪打人 把他们的头爆掉 |
| [1:40:37] | As long as it’s not on camera, you’re okay. But if it’s on camera, you’re done. | 只要不在镜头里都没关系 但被拍到了 你就完了 |
| [1:40:43] | You know, torture didn’t happen in those photographs. | 施虐并没有发生在这些照片里 |
| [1:40:45] | That was humiliation. That was softening up. | 照片里的是侮辱 让他们变得脆弱 |
| [1:40:49] | Torture happened during interrogations. | 施虐发生在审讯时 |
| [1:40:52] | Guys going through interrogation, and they’re dead, | 被审讯的人死了 |
| [1:40:55] | and they were killed, and they died. | 他们是被杀的 死了 |
| [1:40:57] | That’s where the torture happened. We don’t have photographs of that. | 那时才有施虐情形 我们没有那时候的照片 |
| [1:41:14] | I just thought it was a bunch of schmuck MPs acting like idiots. | 我之前只觉得那是一群蠢宪兵在做蠢事 |
| [1:41:17] | I don’t think so anymore, not at all. | 但我不这么认为了 完全不 |
| [1:41:21] | I think you got a bunch of kids getting shammed. | 我认为是一群年轻人被当成替罪羔羊 |
| [1:41:24] | It’s just cover-ups and people are afraid of culpability | 那是想掩盖事实 大家怕自己的行为 |
| [1:41:26] | and ramifications of their actions, so there’s nobody saying crap. | 会招致罪名 所以谁也不敢说一个字 |
| [1:41:32] | Except they’re throwing a lot of people under the bus. | 只把一大堆人供出来以求脱罪 |
| [1:41:37] | I received a phone call | 我接到一通电话 |
| [1:41:42] | from a Pentagon reporter who said, “You were relieved from command.” | 是五角大厦的记者打来的 他说: “你被解职了” |
| [1:41:50] | So I said, “I haven’t heard about it.” | 我说: “我没听说” |
| [1:41:54] | I didn’t hear from General Helmly. He didn’t call me. | 我没听汉姆利将军说起 他没打电话给我 |
| [1:41:57] | He didn’t summon me to Washington D.C. to be in front of his desk | 他没把我召去华盛顿特区他办公桌前 |
| [1:42:02] | so he could relieve me. | 把我解职 |
| [1:42:05] | This is cowardice of a different kind. | 这是另一种懦弱 |
| [1:42:10] | You’re afraid to look Janis Karpinski in the eye? | 你不敢正视贾尼斯·卡尔平斯基的眼睛吗? |
| [1:42:15] | I got a letter 10 days later from his office | 十天后我接到他办公室发的一封信 |
| [1:42:21] | relieving me from command of the 800th MP brigade. | 解除了我在第八百宪兵旅的职位 |
| [1:42:29] | My name was a good name in the military until I did what I did. | 我在军队里的名声向来很好 直到我做了那些事 |
| [1:42:35] | My uncle died in Vietnam 13 years to the day till I was born. | 我叔叔在越战时死亡 十三年后我出生了 |
| [1:42:43] | My dad has two bronze stars for valor from Vietnam. | 我爸因为在越战表现英勇得到两颗铜星 |
| [1:42:49] | My grandfather’s got a bronze star from Vietnam. | 我爷爷得到一颗铜星 |
| [1:42:55] | And then I come along and get involved in that. | 然后我却被牵扯进这种事 |
| [1:43:02] | That just put that name in the mud. | 简直让我名誉扫地 |
| [1:43:10] | You’re taught from the very beginning that you have to follow your orders. | 你从一开始就知道要服从规定 |
| [1:43:16] | And if you don’t you’re gonna get in trouble. | 如果你不遵守规定 就会惹上麻烦 |
| [1:43:19] | And if you do, obviously you end up in trouble. | 但如果你遵守 显然也惹上麻烦 |
| [1:43:22] | You know, it’s easy for retired colonels and generals, and majors, | 退休的上校和将军 少校们 |
| [1:43:27] | or whatever to stand there and say, | 可以很轻易地说 |
| [1:43:28] | “Well, these people should have known illegal orders | “这些人应该知道有不合法的命令 |
| [1:43:30] | “and they should’ve stood up to these lieutenant-colonels and majors. | “他们应该反抗那些上校 少校 |
| [1:43:34] | “And they should-a stood up to them at the time in a war zone | “应该在战区里反对他们 |
| [1:43:36] | “where, you know, lives were at stake.” | “那里的人命一文不值” |
| [1:43:39] | And it’s just kind of unrealistic to think that… | 认为会发生这种事 |
| [1:43:45] | That that would happen. | 实在不太真实 |
| [1:43:49] | You were getting shelled every day, shot at every day. | 你每天被轰炸 被射击 |
| [1:43:53] | Detainees, you know, putting together shanks, | 犯人把自制的刺刀 |
| [1:43:57] | weapons, starting riots. | 武器聚在一起 展开暴动 |
| [1:44:01] | You know, this guy blew up, like, 10 of my buddies. | 这个人炸死了我的十名弟兄 |
| [1:44:04] | He needs to get his behind kicked. | 他真该被踢屁股 |
| [1:44:06] | I know what I can do and I know what I…And I think I know what I can’t do. | 我知道我能做什么 知道…我想我知道我不能做什么 |
| [1:44:10] | I think I know what I can’t do, but I see these guys doing this | 我知道我不能做什么 但我看到这些人做那些事 |
| [1:44:14] | and I see, you know, the CIA guys coming and doing this. | 我看到中情局的人过来做那些事 |
| [1:44:17] | You know, after a while it’s like, “You know what? | 过了一会你会想: “对啊 |
| [1:44:19] | “It’s free reign, just don’t kill them.” | “这是自由区域 只要别杀他们都行” |
| [1:44:22] | I was not the same person there that I am sitting in this chair | 当时在那里的我 已不是现在坐在这张椅子上的我了 |
| [1:44:26] | or that I was before I got there. | 也不是去那里服务以前的我 |
| [1:44:31] | I don’t know what I could’ve done different. | 我不知道自己能有什么不同作为 |
| [1:44:36] | I could’ve said, “Screw you, I’m not working here” | 我或许可以说: “去你的 我不干了” |
| [1:44:38] | and just gone to jail for disobeying an order, I guess. | 然后因不遵守命令而入狱吧 |
| [1:44:42] | But, I don’t know. | 但我不知道 |
| [1:44:48] | I’m sure everybody can do something different put in… | 我确定大家都能做点不同的事… |
| [1:44:51] | I just don’t know what I would’ve done different, | 我只是不知道如果再发生同样情况 |
| [1:44:53] | put in the same situation. | 我会有什么不同作为 |
| [1:44:57] | If I could back all the way up, I wouldn’t have joined the military. | 如果我能够让时光倒退 我就不会从军了 |
| [1:45:00] | That’s what I would have done different. | 这就是我的不同作为吧 |
| [1:45:05] | It’s just not worth it. | 根本不值得 |
| [1:45:08] | You go through all that trouble to start back where you were when you first went in. | 你经历一堆困难 只为了从你刚进去的地方重新开始 |
| [1:45:13] | Trying to get in school, trying to get… | 想进学校 想… |
| [1:45:19] | It just wasn’t worth it. | 根本不值得 |
| [1:45:24] | I just want to go on with life. | 我只想好好生活 |
| [1:45:28] | You know, get a job, raise my son. | 找份工作 养儿子 |
| [1:45:34] | I don’t think I have a lot of choices. | 我想我没多少选择 |
| [1:45:40] | Can’t change anything, so… | 无法改变任何事 所以… |
| [1:45:45] | And if I did, then I wouldn’t have Carter. | 如果我改变什么了 就不会有卡特 |
| [1:45:50] | I mean, I wouldn’t trade him for the world, so… | 我不会拿他去做任何交换 所以… |
| [1:45:54] | I wouldn’t want to go back and change anything. | 我不想回去改变什么 |
| [1:46:00] | It’s how the world turns, ain’t it? | 世界就是这样运转的 不是吗? |
| [1:46:05] | People backstabbing other people. | 大家互相陷害 |
| [1:46:08] | Unfairness. It’s drama. It’s life. | 不公平 这是戏剧 是人生 |
| [1:46:11] | You live it. Now I just got to move on. | 你活在其中 现在我只要继续生活 |
| [1:46:17] | 此后3分钟原无英文字幕 参照中文字幕听译而得 水平有限 仅供参考 | |
| [1:46:24] | I don’t know, I swear to God, I don’t know | 我不知道 我对天发誓 我不知道 |
| [1:46:27] | I’m so far confused about the shit happened there | 我对那里发生的事情太困惑了 |
| [1:46:30] | I go over my head everyday, and dream about every…night | 我每天都在脑中想一遍 每天晚上都梦到一次 |
| [1:46:37] | Dreamed about kinds of things, most of not good | 梦到各种各样的事 多半都不是好事 |
| [1:46:41] | You know, before, I thought about breaking the freaking back insurgency | 以前我想到制住暴动 |
| [1:46:44] | and stupid we were | 和我们有多蠢 |
| [1:46:46] | and we could fix the shit, and we could save for large | 怎样才能改过 怎样才能拯救那些人命 |
| [1:46:49] | But really, there is no doubt no chance you could fix on anything there | 但其实你根本没有机会改过 |
| [1:46:54] | If we leave, they’re killing each other, but they’re not killing us | 如果我们离开 他们会自相残杀 但不会杀我们 |
| [1:46:58] | If we stay, they’re killing each other, and they’re killing us | 如果我们留下 他们会自相残杀 而且也杀我们 |
| [1:47:02] | and the end of these all are of these whole fucking the butt | 整个灾害的最后结果就是这样 |
| [1:47:45] | To the east side of Abu Ghraib is a huge date palm forest | 阿布格莱布的东侧是一大片枣树林 |
| [1:47:51] | and within five or ten minutes… | 在日出后的五到十分钟内 |
| [1:47:53] | …millions of birds took off from the date palm… | 千百群鸟儿从枣树上飞起 |
| [1:47:57] | and just blacked up the sunrise to the east I’m looking | 把整个东方的日出遮盖住了 |
| [1:48:00] | They fly north, uh, northwest where they cross the post | 他们往西北飞 飞过哨站顶端 |
| [1:48:04] | I tried out | 我想出去 |
| [1:48:07] | …my booth and take a breath cigar on gray ground on sunset | 在夕阳西下时休息一下 抽根烟 |
| [1:48:10] | because those birds came back every night | 因为那些鸟儿每天晚上 |
| [1:48:12] | about 15 to 30 minutes before sunset | 都在夕阳西下的15到30分钟前回来 |
| [1:48:14] | fly back on the date palm…so I start my day everyday at least | 飞回枣树上 所以我每天都这样开始 |
| [1:48:19] | watching these guys, the birds’re taking off | 看着鸟儿起飞 |
| [1:48:21] | at least I can think of the world is still normal | 然后想着世上至少有些事情是正常的 |
| [1:48:29] | They can fly away from Abu Ghraib | 他们可以飞离阿布格莱布 |
| [1:48:33] | They come back every night, but they can fly away every morning | 他们每晚都回来 但他们每天早上都可以飞走 |
| [1:48:39] | and it helped these all wired thing | 这对我应付这种种怪事有所慰藉 |