Citizenfour(第四公民)[2014]电影台词本阅读、下载和单词统计

电影名称：第四公民
英文名称：Citizenfour
年代：2014

推荐：千部英美剧台词本阅读

时间	英文	中文
[00:11]		2006年在拍摄了一部关于伊拉克战争的电影后我被列入了一份秘密监视名单在接下来的几年时间里我在美国边境多次遭到拘留审问
[00:46]	Laura	劳拉
[00:48]	at this stage I can offer nothing more than my word	眼下我能给你的只有几句话
[00:51]	I am a senior government employee in the intelligence community	我是政府情报机构的高级雇员
[00:55]	I hope you understand that contacting you is an extremely high risk	希望你能明白我现在联系你风险非常大
[00:59]	and you’re willing to agree to the following precautions before I share more	在我透露更多消息之前你必须同意做好以下安全防御措施
[01:03]	This will not be a waste of your time	绝对不会浪费你的时间
[01:06]	The following sounds complex	以下步骤听起来比较复杂
[01:08]	but it should only take minutes to complete for someone technical	但对一个懂点技术的人来说只要几分钟就能完成
[01:12]	I would like to confirm out of the email that the keys we exchange	在邮件中我向你保证我们之间的密匙交换
[01:15]	will not be intercepted in your place by your surveillance	不会被监视你的人所拦截
[01:19]	Please confirm that no one has ever had a copy of your private key and it uses a strong passphrase	假设你的敌人有每秒一百万兆次的计算推测能力
[01:25]	assume your adversary is capable	请确保没有其他人拥有你私人密匙的副本
[01:28]	of one trillion guesses per second	并且使用强效口令
[01:29]	If the device used to install the private key and enter your passphrase on has been hacked	如果用来下载储存私人密匙和输入口令的装置被黑客入侵
[01:34]	It is trivial to decrypt your communications	那么你就不需要去解开加密的通讯了
[01:38]	Understand that the both steps are not bulletproof	你要明白即使做到这两步也不能完全保证我们的安全
[01:40]	and they are intended only to give us breathing room	这仅仅是为了给我们一点喘息的空间
[01:43]	In the end if you publish the source material	最后如果你公布了这份原始资料
[01:45]	I’ll likely be immediately implicated	那么我会立即被牵连
[01:47]	This must not turn you from the least information I will provide	但不要因为这个原因就不公布我接下来要提供的文件
[01:52]	Thank you and be careful	非常感谢保重
[01:55]	Citizen Four	四号公民
[02:20]	… has surveillance means that there are facts of all us will like to…	具有的监视系统意味着我们将
[02:26]	…take away the surveillance…	取消监视…
[02:27]	There are no facts that the government is manufacturing…	目前没有证据表明政府正在制造…
[02:30]	That’s alright, and this is all back into an independent record	是的这些都在一份独立记录中有说明
[02:33]	To me, this goes to the question of	对我来说目前问题是
[02:35]		当我在本周早些时候写到简·迈尔的纽约客文章关于奥巴马政府对告密者的战争时那篇…
[02:38]	independently verifying what the government is doing	要对政府行为进行独立调查
[02:41]	That’s why I keep going back…	这就是为什么我一直…
[02:44]	All with David, after CBS news…	现在是大卫带来的CBS新闻…
[02:47]	traffic, and weather on KKZN Denver/Boulder AM 7…	早上7点丹佛巨石都会区的交通和天气情况
[02:57]	Hey, can you hear me?	嘿能听到我说话吗
[03:00]	I am here David, how are you?	我在这大卫你好
[03:06]	well, I’ll just point, start by pointing to	我想说的是
[03:08]	Barack Obama himself said about those questions	在2007年12年
[03:10]	when he was running for the office	奥巴马在竞选总统时
[03:12]	that he now occupies in December of 2007	曾经对这些问题发表过看法
[03:15]	He said quote	他称
[03:16]	“the president does not have the power under the constitution	如果不是为了停止对国家迫在眉睫的威胁
[03:19]	to unilaterally authorize military attack	在宪法下
[03:21]	in a situation that does not involve	总统是没有权利单方面
[03:23]	stopping an actual imminent threat to the nation”	授权军事袭击的
[03:26]	So by Obama’s own words	所以按照奥巴马的话来说
[03:27]	the president does not have the power	根据宪法
[03:29]	that he’s now exercising under the constitution	他目前行使的权力是非法的
[03:31]	And as far as why it matters	为什么这件事这么重要呢
[03:33]	in August 1st 2007	因为在2007年8月1日
[03:36]	when he laid out his reasons why he was running for office	他解释了自己竞选总统的原因
[03:39]	why he thought it was so important to change the way we were doing things	以及为什么我们要改变目前的行事方式
[03:42]	He said quote “no more ignoring the law when it’s inconvenient	他称不能行事不便就忽视法律
[03:46]	that is not who we are	这不是原来的我们
[03:47]	We will again set an example for the world	我们要再一次为世界树立榜样
[03:50]	that law’s not subjected to the whims of stubborn rulers	向他们证明法律是不会受顽固的统治者所摆布的
[03:53]	So do all the presidents just simply start wars on their own without any…	所以现在总统就是自己发起战争无视…
[04:22]	you asked why I picked you	你问我为什么选择了你
[04:24]	I didn’t, you did	但其实不是我选择了你而是你自己
[04:27]	The surveillance you’ve experienced means you’ve been “selected”	现在你被监视过这意味着你被”选中”了
[04:30]	A term which will mean more to you	因为你了解现
[04:32]	as you learn about how the modern SIGINT system works	代通信情报系统是怎么工作的这个词对你意味着跟多
[04:37]	For now, know that every border you cross, every purchase you make	从现在开始你越过的每个边境买的每件东西
[04:41]	every call you dial	打的每个电话
[04:42]	Every cell phone tower you pass, friend you keep	经过的每座手机信号发射塔交的朋友
[04:45]	article you write, site you visit	写的篇文章去的地方
[04:48]	subject line you type and packet you route	在标题栏里打的每个字发送的每个数据包
[04:51]	is in the hands of a system whose reach is unlimited	都在一个系统的掌握之中它的覆盖范围是无限的
[04:54]	but whose safeguards are not	但保护措施却是有限的
[04:57]	Your victimization by the NSA system means	国家安全局选择欺骗你
[04:59]	you are well aware of the threat	这意味着你很清楚不受限制的秘密政策
[05:01]	that unrestricted secret police pose for democracies	会对民主带来怎样的威胁
[05:05]	This is a story few but you can tell	这个故事只有少数人能说你就是其中之一
[05:07]		为了防止我的电影胶片在美国边境被没收我搬到了柏林当收到第一封邮件的时候我加强了安全措施
[05:38]		威廉·宾尼是国家安全局一名充满传奇色彩的解密数学家在冷战期间他分析过核威胁在九十年代他将工作重点转移到互联网并拓展了大规模数据分析方法
[06:02]	Thank you for inviting me here	非常感谢能邀请我来这里
[06:04]	and to give me the opportunity to, uh, express my story	并给我这次机会来说说自己的故事
[06:08]	Let me give you some of my background	让我先在说说自己的背景吧
[06:10]	I spend about four years in military	我在军队里呆了4年
[06:12]	and then I went to NSA, directly, so	然后直接去了美国国家安全局
[06:15]	So I ended up with about 37 years of service combined	所以我在政府机构总共工作了37年
[06:19]	Most of that was a lot of fun	大部分的工作都很有趣
[06:21]	I tell you it was really a lot of fun breaking these puzzles	解谜是非常有意思的一件事
[06:23]	you know, solving problems, things like that	还有其他解决问题之类的
[06:25]	So and that’s really what I did, it was fun for me	所以这就是我所做的工作兴趣所在
[06:28]	I started working with data	我开始接受有关数据的工作
[06:29]	looking at data and data systems, how you do that	查看数据和数据系统以及怎样操作
[06:32]	I used to develop this concept of analysis	我发明了一种分析概念
[06:35]	that you could lay it out in such a way	就是你可以把数据进行排列
[06:37]	that it could be coded and executed electronically	然后对它进行编码并执行程序
[06:40]	meaning you could automate analysis, ok	意思就是你可以对数据进行自动化分析
[06:43]	And it has to do with metadata and using metadata to relationships	这个概念和元数据有关用元数据建立联系
[06:46]	So that was whole, that was my whole theme there in NSA	所以这就是我在国家安全局的工作重心
[06:49]	that was, eventually that’s what I ended up to	也是我的成果
[06:51]	I was the only one there doing it by the way	顺便说一下在国家安全局做这个的只有我一个人
[06:54]	So anyway 911 happened	然后911发生了
[06:58]	And it must have been right after a few days	在这件事发生后的几天
[07:01]	no more than a week after 911	肯定不超过一个礼拜
[07:04]	they decided to began actively spying on everyone in this country	他们就决定对美国国内每个人都进行监视
[07:09]	and they wanna that, that part of our program to run all the spying, alright	他们想让我们组的部分项目用来进行监视活动
[07:15]	So that’s, that’s exactly what they did	他们还真的这么做了
[07:18]	And then they started to take telecom data and expanded after that	后来他们就开始获取电信记录之后又扩展到其他信息
[07:23]	So, I mean the one I knew was AT&T	就我知道的公司有AT&T
[07:26]	and that one provided 320 million records everyday	他们每天都会提供3亿2千万条记录
[07:29]	That program was reauthorized every 45 days by the	这个项目每45天会重新授权一次
[07:33]	what I called the Yes Committee	授权组织我叫它”是”委员会
[07:33]		迈克尔·海登时任国家安全局局长乔治·特尼特时任中情局局长美司法部
[07:35]	Which was Hayden, Tenet and the DOJ	成员有海登特尼特和司法部
[07:40]	The program was called Stellar Wind	项目名叫《星风》
[07:42]	So first I went to the house intelligence committee	一开始我去了众议院情报委员会
[07:45]	then the staff member that I personally knew there and	那里有个和我认识的工作人员
[07:48]	she then went to the chairman of that committee	她然后去找了委员会的主席
[07:50]	Nancy Pelosi was the minority Rep	南希·佩洛西当时还是少数派领袖
[07:54]	They were all briefed into that program at the time by the way	那个时候该项目的情况都要向这些人报告
[07:57]	And all the other programs were all going on	其他正在进行的项目中
[07:59]	including all these CIA programs	也包括中央情报局的所有项目
[08:02]	I wasn’t alone in this	我并不是单枪匹马
[08:03]	there were four others out there in NSA	和我一起在国家安全局的还有其他四个人
[08:05]	and we were all trying to work internally in the government for over these years	这么多年来我们一直在政府内部进行工作
[08:08]	trying to get them to cover around being constitutionally acceptable	试图使这些项目合乎宪法
[08:12]	and take it into the courts	然后带去法院审查
[08:14]	you have the court oversight of it too	法院的监督当然也是必不可少的
[08:16]	so we, we naively kept thinking that could	所以我们天真地想一切都能顺风顺水
[08:19]	that could happen and it never did	但是希望落空了
[08:24]	but anyway after that and all the stuff we were doing	然而在我们做了这些工作之后
[08:27]	they decided to raid us, to keep us quiet	他们决定对我们进行搜查让我们闭嘴
[08:30]	threaten us, you know	甚至还威胁我们
[08:32]	so we were raided simultaneously, four of us	我们四个人的搜查是同时进行
[08:34]	in my case they came in with guns drawn	在搜查我的时候他们是拿着枪来的
[08:36]	I don’t know why they did that, but they did	我不知道他们为什么那么做但事实就是这样
[08:59]	Laura	劳拉
[09:01]	I will answer what I’ve remembered of your questions as best as I can	我很尽量回答我记得的问题
[09:04]	forgive the lack of structure	抱歉可能不是很有条理
[09:05]	I am not a writer	毕竟我不是一个作家
[09:06]	I have to draft this in a great hurry	这些都是我匆匆忙忙赶出来的
[09:10]	What you know is Stellar Wind has grown	你知道的《星风》项目已经越来越复杂了
[09:14]	SSO the expended special source operation	扩展后的特殊消息行动组SSO
[09:17]	that took over Stellar Wind’s share of the pine	已经接管了《星风》
[09:20]	has spread all over the world	该行动组已经遍及全球
[09:22]	to practically include comprehensive coverage of the United States	尤其是对美国进行了全面的监视
[09:26]	Disturbingly, the amount of US communication	让人担忧的是遭到国家安全局拦截的
[09:29]	ingested by NSA is still increasing	美国通讯数量仍在增多
[09:33]	Publicly, we complain that things are going dark	政府公开抱怨事情越来越糟糕
[09:35]	but in fact our accesses are improving	但实际上他们能监视的范围已经越来越广了
[09:39]	The truth is that the NSA has never in his history	即使在历史上国家安全局也从未
[09:41]	collected more than it does now	搜集过那么多的信息
[09:46]	I know the location of most domestic interception points	我知道国内有多个拦截点
[09:49]	and the largest telecommunication companies in the US	以及大规模的电信公司
[09:52]	are betraying the trust of their customers	背弃了顾客对他们的信任
[09:55]	which I can prove	这点我可以证明
[09:57]	We are building the greatest weapon for oppression in the history of man	我们正在建造人类历史上最强大的镇压武器
[10:01]	Yet its’ directors are accepting themselves through accountability	而它的指挥者却以责任为其正名
[10:06]	NSA director Keith Alexander lied to Congress	国家安全局局长基思·亚力山大欺骗了国会
[10:09]	but which I can prove	这点我可以证明
[10:11]	Billions of US communications are being intercepted	上百万条美国通讯正在被拦截
[10:16]	And gathering evidence of wrongdoing	收集这一切不法行为的证据
[10:18]	I focus on the wrongdoing of the American people	我主要集中在美国民众所作的错事上
[10:21]	But believe me when I say that the surveillance we live under	但是请相信我我们所受的监视
[10:23]	is the highest privilege compared to how we treat the rest of the world	和其他国家受到的美国方面的监视相比已经算是优待了
[10:28]	This I can also prove	这点我也可以证明
[10:31]	On cyber operations, the government’s public position is that	在网络运行方面政府的公开立场是
[10:34]	we still lack a policy framework	我们仍然缺少一个政策框架
[10:36]	That, too, is a lie	这也是个谎言
[10:37]	There’s a detailed policy framework	事实上他们有非常详尽的政策框架
[10:40]	a kind of marshal law for cyber operations created by the White House	是由白宫制定的网络行动戒严法
[10:44]	It’s called presidential policy director of 20	名为20号总统政策指导
[10:46]	and was finalized at the end of last year	并在去年最终确定
[10:49]	This I can also prove	这点我也能证明
[10:52]	I appreciate that you concerned for my safety	非常感谢你能这么关心我的安全
[10:55]	But I already know how this will end for me	但是我非常清楚我最终将面临怎样的结局
[10:57]	and I accept the risk	我也自愿承担风险
[10:59]	If I have luck and you’re careful	如果我够幸运你也够小心
[11:02]	you will have everything you need	那么你会得到一切你想要的
[11:04]	I ask only that you ensure this information makes it home to the American public	我只要求你能确保这些消息最后能够公之于众
[11:09]	Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails?	国家安全局是否常规性地拦截了美国公民的邮件
[11:14]	No	没有
[11:17]	Does the NSA intercept American’s cell phone conversations?	国家安全局是否拦截了美国公民的电话谈话内容
[11:23]	No	没有
[11:24]	Google searches?	谷歌搜索记录
[11:25]	No	没有
[11:27]	Text messages?	短信记录
[11:28]	No	没有
[11:29]	Amazoncom orders?	亚马逊购物记录
[11:31]	No	没有
[11:32]	Bank records?	银行记录
[11:33]	No	没有
[11:34]	What your judicial consent is required	国家安全局需要你
[11:37]	for NSA to intercept communications and information	在哪方面的同意才能拦截
[11:42]	involving American citizens?	美国公民通讯和信息
[11:44]	Within the United States that would be the FBI lead	在美国境内是由中情局负责
[11:47]	If it was a foreign actor in the United States	如果对象是在美国的外国演员
[11:49]	The FBI would still have to lead	也是由中情局负责
[11:51]	and could work that with NSA	但是可以和国家安全局
[11:53]	or other intelligence agencies as authorized	或其他授权情报机构进行合作
[11:56]	But to conduct that kind of, of collection in Unite States	但是要在美国进行这种规模的信息搜集
[12:00]	we have to go through a court order	我们必须要得到法院的许可
[12:03]	And court would have to authorized it	由法院进行授权
[12:05]	We are not authorized to do it, nor do we do it	我们并没有得到授权我们也没有进行过信息搜集
[12:07]		威廉中村贤三美国联邦法院联邦上诉法院
[12:15]	All rise	全体起立
[12:18]	The United States court of appeal for the Ninth Circuit is now in session	美国第九巡回上诉法庭现在开庭
[12:20]		2006年技术人员马克·克莱因透露国家安全局窃听位于旧金山的AT&T公司网络顾客因此起诉
[12:23]	Please be seated	大家请坐
[12:33]	Morning and welcome to the Ninth Circuit	早上好欢迎来到第九巡回法庭
[12:37]	The first case for argument is Jewel verses National Security Agency	今天开庭审理的第一个案子是朱厄尔起诉国家安全局
[12:42]	You may proceed	你可以开始了
[12:46]	May it please the court	法官您好
[12:47]	Kevin Bankston for Carolyn Jewel	我是卡罗林·朱厄尔
[12:48]	and her fellow plaintiffs in Jewel VS NSA	以及其他原告的代理人凯文·班克斯顿
[12:53]	Your honors, plaintiffs have specifically alleged that	法官阁下我的原告当事人
[12:57]	their own communications and communications’ records	已经明确指出政府拥有
[12:59]	have been acquired by the government	其通讯内容记录
[13:02]	But the district court found that	但地方法院认为
[13:03]	we have failed to allege facts that	我方无法提供证据
[13:06]	differentiate the injury of our plaintiffs have suffered	对我当事人所受的损害
[13:09]	from the injury suffered by every other AT&T user	和AT&T公司其他用户所受到的损害进行区分
[13:12]	whose communications and records have been acquired by the government	政府同样也拿到了这些用户的通讯记录
[13:15]	Basically concluding that	由此基本可以肯定
[13:16]	so long as everyone is being surveiled	只要人人都被监视
[13:19]	no one has standing to sue	那么没有人有起诉资格
[13:21]	However to deny the standing of a person who’s injured	一个人受到损失但没有起诉资格
[13:23]	simply because many others are also injured	仅仅因为其他人也受到了同样的损失
[13:26]	would mean that the most injurious and wise of the government’s actions	这意味政府决策不管好坏
[13:29]	can be questioned by nobody	没有人能够质疑
[13:31]	do you have anything concrete other than fact	你能提供具体的证据
[13:33]	a specific communication of your client was intercepted	来证明你的当事人通讯遭到拦截吗
[13:39]	we have evidence that all the communications passing between AT&T’s network	我们有证据证明所有位于北卡罗来纳的AT&T网络
[13:43]	and other networks in their North California facility have been intercepted	和其他网络中进行的通讯活动都受到过拦截
[13:48]	so that would necessarily include the internet communications	那么其中必定包括我来自北卡罗来纳州的当事人
[13:50]	of our Northern California plaintiffs, so	所进行的网络通讯活动
[13:54]	ok, thank you	好的谢谢
[13:55]	thank you your honors	谢谢法官阁下
[14:04]	may it please the court	法官您好
[14:04]	Thomas Byron from the department of justice here	我是来自司法部的托马斯·拜伦
[14:07]	on behalf of the government defendants	我代表政府被告
[14:09]	we think this litigation need not be resolved in federal court	我们认为这起诉讼不需要在联邦法院进行审理
[14:13]	in light of the oversight of the political branches, both legislative and executive,	鉴于立法部门和行政部门这两大部门
[14:19]	which provides a better opportunity for oversight and resolution of the concerns	能够提供更好的监督机会和办法
[14:26]	raised concerning nationwide policies of alleged surveillance	来解决这些案件中所谓的
[14:31]	uh, in these, in these complains	全国范围内的监视政策所带来的问题
[14:33]	even the EFF’s revealed that	就算EFF披露越来越多原告
[14:34]	more and more of the plaintiffs	他们的邮件和电话记录被拦截
[14:36]	had emails or telephone conversations intercepted	和保护国家安全
[14:39]	that had nothing to do with the national security	没有一点关系
[14:42]	Your honor, I don’t know that anyone necessarily would have standing	法官阁下在这两起案件中我认为没有任何人
[14:46]	to raise the particular claims at issue in these two cases	有诉讼资格起诉我方当事人
[14:50]	we think, instead	我们认为
[14:51]	that the kinds of claims at issue here against these defendants	针对我方当事人提出的诉讼
[14:56]	are those are better suit to resolution before the	能在上述政府部门
[14:59]	the representative branches of our government	得到更好的解决
[15:01]	what would the judiciary have if your approach’s adopted?	采用你的建议对司法部有什么益处
[15:09]	judge Ferguson I think that	弗格森法官我认为…
[15:10]	I mean we just, just get out of the way, is that it?	你的意思是让我们法院不要进行干涉对吗
[15:14]	Well, judge Ferguson I think that there’s narrow category of subset of cases	弗格森法官我认为针对一些隶属于小范畴的案例
[15:18]	in which it maybe appropriate to step aside for that narrow category of cases	法庭不做干涉是比较合适的做法
[15:24]	but the judiciary places a rule	但是司法部是有法令法规的
[15:27]	to be sure, judge Ferguson	那是当然弗格森法官
[15:28]	our system	这是我们的系统
[15:29]	yes, your honor And we don’t mean to diminish that	是的法官阁下但我们的意思不是说削弱法院
[15:33]	you are here asking us to abdicate that rule?	你现在是在要求我们废除我们的法令法规吗
[15:36]	no, your honor	不是这样的法官阁下
[15:37]	uh, but it is the question of this court discussion	是否要采取这种做法
[15:39]	whether to reach that issue	还是要取决于法院的讨论结果
[15:41]	we do think that, there is simply no way for the litigation to proceed	我方认为要进行该诉讼程序
[15:45]	without risk of divulging those very questions of privileged information that would cause	必然会有泄露机密信息的风险
[15:51]	as the director of national intelligence has explained	就像国家安全局局长说过的
[15:53]	exceptionally grave damage to national security of disclose	这势必会严重损害国家安全信息的披露
[16:01]	thanks for having me	非常感谢邀请我
[16:03]	if anybody has any question, like I said, just, basically just raising hand	如果有什么问题就像我说过的举个手就可以
[16:07]	and I’ll try to call you as soon as I possibly can	我会尽快的叫你的
[16:10]	So, who here actually feels like they are under surveillance, pretty regularly?	在场有多少人老是觉得自己被监视的
[16:18]	Everyone in sight is occupied	好像每个人都经历过
[16:19]	How many people here have been arrested and have their, have record dated	在场有多少人曾经被逮捕登记在案
[16:22]	and have their phone taken into the backroom?	手机被拿走带到密室的
[16:24]	How many people here have their retinal scanned	有多少人做过视网膜扫描的
[16:28]	Wow	哇
[16:30]	So, you guys are actually in a sense that canary in the coal mine, right?	所以现在大家都感觉自己是煤矿里的金丝雀对吗
[16:34]	Because incentives are all lied up against you	因为这些东西都与你们为敌
[16:36]	Any to see you on the subway,	你在坐地铁的时候都是
[16:38]	link your metro card to your debt card, right?	可以把地铁卡连到你的银行卡上的对吧
[16:41]	And get a refill	然后好进行充值
[16:42]	This is a concept which is key to everything we talk about today	这是一个对我们今天的讲座内容至关重要的概念
[16:45]	That is called linkability	这个概念被称为联结性
[16:46]	Take one piece of data, and link it to another piece of data	用一个数据把它连接到另一个数据上
[16:50]	So for example	举个例子
[16:51]	if you have your metro card and you have your debt card	你现在手头上有地铁卡和银行卡
[16:53]	You have those things you could draw a line between them, right?	这两个是完全没有关联的对吧
[16:56]	So that’s like not a scary thing	听起来不怎么可怕
[16:58]	except your bank card is tied to everything else	但是现在你的银行卡
[17:00]	that you do during the day	可以和你在这一天当中所做的任何事进行联结
[17:02]	So now they know where you are going,	所以现在他们知道了你要去哪里
[17:04]	when you make purchases	什么时候买东西
[17:05]	So when they decide to target you	所以当他们决定要把你作为目标的时候
[17:07]	think that I actually recreate exact steps with a metro card and a credit card alone	记得我刚刚仅仅用地铁卡和银行卡做了一个步骤重现
[17:11]	like literally where you go and what you buy	你去的地方买的东西
[17:14]	and potentially by linking that data	他们会将这些信息
[17:16]	with other people on the similar travel plans	和有相同记录的人进行联结
[17:19]	they can figure out who you talked to and who you met with	这样他们就可以知道你和谁说过话见过面
[17:21]	When you then take cell phone data which logs your location	你用有位置记录的手机数据
[17:25]	and you link up purchasing data, metro card data and your debt card	和购物数据地铁卡数据银行卡数据连起来
[17:29]	You start to get what you could call metadata in aggregate over a person’s life	总的来说通过这种方式可以得到一个人一生的元数据
[17:34]	A metadata in aggregate is content	元数据总的来说就是事件内容
[17:37]	it tells a story about you which is made up of facts	用事实记录你的一切
[17:40]	but is not necessarily true	但不一定都是正确的
[17:42]	So, for example just because you are on the corner	举个例子比如说你正好在那个街角
[17:44]	and all those data points point to it	所有有关犯罪嫌疑人的数据点都指向那个地点
[17:46]	It doesn’t’ mean you commit the crime	但这并不意味着你就是罪犯
[17:48]	So it’s important to know that	所以最重要的事是
[17:50]	if someone has a perception of you having done a thing	要是别人知道你做了什么事
[17:52]	It will now follow you for the rest of your life	那么这个记录会一辈子跟着你
[17:55]	So just keep in mind that what happens to you guys for example	所以要牢记那些在你们身上发生的事情
[17:57]	With Fingerprints, retinal scans and photographs	比如你们做的那些视网膜扫描被拍的照片
[18:01]	That is what is going to happen to people in the future	当以后的人想要反抗这些改变
[18:04]	when they resist all these changes	想要用受宪法保护的形式
[18:05]	And when they try to protest	进行抗议的时候
[18:06]	in a totally constitutionally protected way	这一切就会发生在他们的身上
[18:10]	This is for you director Clapper	到你了克拉珀局长
[18:11]	get on the surveillance front	请到前面来
[18:12]	and I hope we can do this in a just yes-or-no answer	我希望我们就用回答是或不是来进行
[18:15]	because eveyone wants to find some times to move on	因为大家都想快点进入下一个阶段
[18:18]	So does NSA collect any type of data at all on millions	国家安全局是否搜集过数百万名
[18:24]	or hundreds of millions of Americans?	或者说是亿万美国人的信息
[18:27]	No, sir	没有
[18:29]	It does not	没有是吗
[18:32]	Not wittingly, there are cases where they could in-inadvertently perhaps, uh, collect	不是蓄意的有些时候可能不经意地搜集了一些信息
[18:39]	but not, not wittingly	但没有蓄意搜集的行为
[18:41]	Alright	好的
[18:42]		在与匿名人士进行了长达数月的通讯后该匿名人士终于同意见面我来到纽约等待下一步指令
[19:07]	The encrypted archive should be available to you within 7 days	你应该在7天之内就能获得加密文档
[19:11]	The key will follow when everything else is done	密匙能长期使用
[19:15]	The material I provide and investigative effort required	我所提供的信息以及必要的调查工作
[19:18]	will be too much for any one person	对任何一个人来说都是一个大工程
[19:21]	I recommend at a very minimum you involve Glenn Greenwald	我建议你至少要找格伦·格林沃尔德帮忙
[19:24]	I believe you know him	我觉得你应该知道他
[19:28]	The plain text to the payload will include my true name details for the record	记载信息的纯文本包括我的真实姓名和有关记录的细节
[19:33]	Though it would be your decision	至于是否公布我的身份用何种方式
[19:35]	as to whether or how to declare my involvement	则由你来决定
[19:39]	My personal desire is that you paint the target directly on my back	我个人愿望是你直接说出我就是泄密的人
[19:44]	No one, not even my most trusted confidant	没有人甚至连我最信任的知己
[19:47]	is aware of my intentions	都不了解我的意图
[19:48]	And it would not be fair for them	因为我而让他们被怀疑
[19:50]	to fall under suspicion for my actions	对他们来说是非常不公平的
[19:53]	You may be the only one who can prevent that	只有你能阻止这件事
[19:55]	and that is by immediately nailing me to the cross	你要让我被钉在十字架上
[19:58]	Rather than trying to protect me as a source	而不是作为线人把我保护起来
[20:03]	On timing regarding meeting up in Hong Kong	至于在香港的会面时间
[20:07]	The first rendezvous attempt will be 10 am local time on Monday	第一次见面时间是当地时间星期一早上十点
[20:12]	We will meet in a hallway outside the restaurant in the Mira Hotel	我们会在的米拉酒店餐厅外面的走道里会面
[20:17]	I will be working on a Rubik’s cube	我会玩一个魔方
[20:19]	So that you can indentify me	这样你就能认出我
[20:22]	Approach me and ask me	接近我
[20:23]	if I know the house of the restaurant	然后问我知不知道餐厅的营业时间
[20:26]	I’ll respond by stating that I am not sure	我会回答我不清楚
[20:28]	and suggest that you try the lounge instead	并建议你到休息室问问
[20:31]	After that I will show you where it is	然后我会给你带路
[20:32]	and at that point we’re good	这样就算接头成功了
[20:35]	You simply need to follow that truly	你只要表现地自然一点就行了
[21:15]	Yes, first positioning	首次定位
[21:16]	I mean, if you want to just sit, any particular what are you gonna be doing	随便坐自在点
[21:19]	you know, I’m gonna go there, to get a better light	我去那边这样拍出来光线比较好
[21:33]	There are, you know so many, different, enormous stories	你知道这些文件中有很多不同的事可以写
[21:37]	Just that kind standout stories	会是非常好的报道
[21:40]	That even like, you know, certain things like individual documents	就算是有关个人文档的资料
[21:44]	that can be just a dern story	也可以是充满秘密的
[21:46]	I just want to start teasing these stories out	我就想先把这些梳理出来
[21:48]	I ba, I basically woke up this morning	今天早上一醒来
[21:49]	and already started writing stories	我就已经开始写报道了
[21:52]	So, I’m hoping to, you know start publishing	所以我想在接下来一两天内
[21:54]	with them like a day or two days	就把这篇报道发出去
[21:56]	Ok	好的
[21:57]	As long as you’re good with that	只要你觉得没有问题
[21:58]	yeah	好
[21:59]	so, As far as I quote, the stuff we have talked about	我们已经谈论过有些事情
[22:02]	I mean, I’m, kinda like, customizing it between, you know, stuff that I like to talk to you about	我想和你谈谈文件的事
[22:10]	in term of the documents and the content	有关文件的内容
[22:12]	Laura has a bunch of questions about that as well	劳拉也有很多问题
[22:14]	Sort of working through documents, getting you taken on a lot of the stuff that	详细说一下这些资料你因为这些都承受了很多东西
[22:18]	You know, how I’m gonna understand it better	这样我会对这些文件有一个更好的理解
[22:19]	Then also, sort of, You story, right	然后是关于你自身的故事
[22:23]	Like who you are	像是你是谁啊
[22:24]	Yeah	嗯
[22:24]	Why you’ve done that, what you’ve done	你做了什么你为什么这么做
[22:27]	And I love to do that first	我想先把这部分做了
[22:28]	Ok	好的
[22:29]	In part because you are the only one who can do that	因为你是公开告密第一人
[22:32]	So I would like to get that done, just let’s get that done	所以我想先完成这部分
[22:35]	And also because you know, it might be that you want to do that early	还有个原因是可能你也想先做这部分
[22:41]	It’s necessary we might choose to have that done early	我们有必要早点做这部分
[22:44]	Tell me your thoughts on what you are with that	说说你对这些事情的看法吧
[22:47]	The primary one on that	我这么做主要的原因
[22:48]	I think I’ve expressed a couple of times is	我也说过很多次了
[22:52]	I feel the modern media is a big focus on personalities	就是我觉得现在的媒体都很关注名人
[22:56]	Totally	对
[22:57]	I’m a little concerned that the more we focus on that	我担心我们对名人关心得越多
[23:01]	the more they’re gonna use that as a distraction	就越会被分散注意力
[23:05]	I don’t necessarily want that happen	我不想发生这样的事
[23:06]	which is why I consistently said, you know	所以我一直说
[23:09]	I’m not the story here	我不是故事的中心
[23:12]	Nervous	你太紧张了
[23:13]	That is very good, very cheap then	这支笔买的时候好用又便宜
[23:15]	It looks like the is broke	现在破了
[23:17]	Go ahead	继续吧
[23:19]	But, yeah, anything I can do to help you guys to get this out I’ll do	只要是能帮助你们的事我都会去做
[23:26]	I don’t have any experience with media here, with how this works	对媒体我没有经验
[23:33]	I’m kinda learning as I go	所以我现在是边走边学
[23:37]	So, I’m just wanna get a sense	我想知道的是
[23:38]	of why did you decided to what you’ve done	你为什么要这么做
[23:40]	So, for me it all comes down to state power	对于我来说归根结底就是国家权力
[23:44]	against people’s ability to meaningfully oppose that power	和人民反抗力量的抗衡
[23:48]	And I’m sitting there everyday	我每天坐在办公室里
[23:51]	getting paid to design methods to amplify that state power	拿工资扩大国家权力
[23:58]	And I’m realizing that if, you know the policies	然后我意识到
[24:01]	which is, that they are the only things that will strain these states	你知道政策是唯一能够限制国家权力的
[24:05]	We’re changed	如果我们被改变了
[24:06]	There, you couldn’t meaningfully oppose these	那我们就没有办法反抗
[24:09]	I mean you have to be the most incredibly sophisticated tech collector in existence	除非你是超级厉害的技术人员
[24:15]	I mean, I’m not sure there’s anybody, no matter how gifted you are	不管一个人多么厉害
[24:20]	who could oppose all of the offices, all of the right people	多么有能力设备有多少
[24:24]	even all the mediocre people out there	我认为他都不可能反抗政府机构和手握重权的人
[24:26]	with all of the tools and all the capabilities	甚至是连里面最平庸的人可能也反抗不了
[24:29]	As I saw the promise of the Obama administration	奥巴马政府背弃了所做的承诺
[24:33]	be betrayed and walked away from it	把这一切抛之脑后
[24:36]	In fact, actually advance the things that had been promised	事实上在实现承诺方面
[24:41]	to be, sort of, curtailed, reined in and dailed back	他们不仅偷工减料行动迟滞甚至还食言
[24:45]	It actually got worse	事情变得越来越糟糕
[24:46]	particularly drone strikes which I also learned in NSA we could	尤其是我在国家安全局得知的无人机
[24:50]	we could watch drone videos	我们可以查看无人机的视频
[24:52]	that’s tops	这是非常机密的
[24:56]	As, as I saw that really harden me to action	这更坚定了我的决心
[24:59]	In real time?	视频是实时的吗
[25:00]	In real time, yes	对实时的
[25:02]	A little stream, a lower quality of the video to your desktop	会有一小段画质不高的视频连到你的桌面
[25:06]	Typically, you will be watching surveillance drones supposedly, actually	一般来说是无人监视机
[25:09]	Murder drones really going out there behind somebody	但其实都是一直跟在某个人背后的杀人机
[25:12]	But you have a drone, it’s just following somebody’s house for hours and hours	这些无人机就一直在某个人家附近
[25:17]	You won’t know who it is	但是你不知道那个人是谁
[25:19]	Because, you know, you don’t have the context for that	因为整个命令内容你不知道
[25:21]	But it’s just a page or it’s lists and lists of drone feeds of all these different countries	你收到的文件会是一个或者多个无人机监视不同国家的
[25:27]	on all these different code names	影像视频文件代号都不同
[25:29]	You can just click on which one you want to see	点击就能查看
[25:33]	Right, but, so if your self interest is to live in a world,	如果你的愿望是住在一个
[25:37]	much, there is a maximum privacy	有高度隐私权的国家
[25:39]	Doing something that could put you into prison	你这样做会让你受牢狱之灾
[25:42]	in which your privacy is completely destroyed	你的隐私还会荡然无存
[25:45]	sort of antithesis of that	几乎是和你的愿望背道而驰
[25:46]	How did you reach the point where that is worthwhile calculation for you?	为什么你觉得这么做值得呢
[25:51]	I remember what the internet was like before I was being watched	我还记得在被监视之前网络是什么样子的
[25:55]	And there’s never been anything in the history of man is like it	之前从来没有过类似网络的这种东西
[25:57]	I mean, you could, again, you can have children from one part of the world	位于世界一头的孩子们在任何时间任何地点
[26:02]	having an equal discussion	都可以和专家进行平等的讨论
[26:05]	Where, you know, they were sort of granted, the same respect	讨论什么都行
[26:10]	for their ideas in conversation with experts in the field from another part of the world	而另一头的专家
[26:15]	On any topic, anywhere, anytime, all of the time	也会给予他们尊重
[26:19]	And it was, it was free and unrestrained	这时候的网络完全是自由没有限制的
[26:22]	That we’ve seen the chilling of that, the calling of that, the change of that model	然后我们发现这种模式逐渐发生改变
[26:27]	towards something which people self-police their own views	人们对自己的言论开始变得非常小心翼翼
[26:31]	And they literally make jokes about ending up on the list	大家都会开玩笑说
[26:34]	if they donate to a political cause	你给什么党派捐款或者在讨论中说了什么话
[26:36]	Or if they say something in the discussion	有可能就会被列在监视名单上
[26:39]	And, and it’s become an expectation that they’re being watched	都有一个心理预期我们是在被监视着的
[26:44]	Many people love to talk	有些人说
[26:45]	have mentioned that they’re careful about what they type into search engines	他们对自己在搜索引擎里打的内容都很谨慎
[26:49]	because they know that it’s being recorded	因为他们知道这些都会有记录
[26:50]	The limits, the boundaries of their intellectual exploration	他们的思想都受到了限制
[26:56]	And, I’m, I am more willing to risk imprisonment or any other negative outcome personally	比起让我和其他跟我一样的人
[27:09]	Than I am willing to risk the curtailment of my intellectual freedom	承受思想受到约束的痛苦
[27:16]	And that of those around me who might care for equally as I do for myself	我宁愿我个人承受牢狱之灾或者其他不好的结果
[27:23]	And again, that’s not to say that I’m self sacrificing	不能说我是在自我牺牲
[27:26]	Because it gives me, I feel good in my human experience to know that	因为如果我能为他人利益作出奉献
[27:32]	I can contribute to the good of others	我自己也感到很高兴
[27:51]	Could you elaborate on that?	你的说得详细一点吗
[27:53]	So, I don’t know how much the programs are there	我不知道一共有多少个监视项目
[27:58]	the actual technical opacity I’ve basically talked to you about	基本上的技术难点我都说过了
[28:00]	But there is an infrastructure in place in United States and worldwide	但是在美国和全球其他范围内的某个地方有一个设施
[28:06]	That NSA has built incorporation with other governments as well	是国家安全局和其他政府合建的
[28:13]	That intercepts basically every digital communication	所有电子通讯
[28:20]	every radio communication	无线电通讯
[28:22]	Every analog communication that has sensors in place to detect	只要是有传感器可以探测到的模拟信号通讯都会被拦截
[28:28]	And with these capabilities	这些设备
[28:31]	Basically the vast majority of	基本上对大部分人类通讯
[28:36]	human and computer-to-computer communications	及计算机对计算机通讯
[28:40]	device-based communication, which sort of inform relationship	设备通讯只要是进行
[28:43]	between humans are automatically ingested without targeting	信息传递的不需要锁定目标
[28:49]	and that allows individuals	就能自动提取通讯内容
[28:51]	to retral actively search your communications	还可以让其他人通过特定的关键词
[28:55]	based on self sophistication	搜索你的通讯记录
[28:57]	so for example	举个例子
[28:58]	if I want to see the content of your email	比如我想看你的邮件内容
[29:03]	you know, your wife’s phone calls, anything like that	你妻子的电话记录之类的
[29:07]	All I have to do is to use what’s called a “selector”	我要做的是用一个”选择词”
[29:11]	Any kind of thing in the communication’s chain	就是在通讯渠道中
[29:17]	That might uniquely or almost uniquely identify you as an individual	关于你的特殊信息
[29:22]	I’m talking about things like email addresses, IP addresses, phone numbers	比如邮箱 IP地址电话号码
[29:25]	credit cards even passwords that are unique to you that aren’t used by anyone else	银行卡号甚至是密码只要是单单只属于你的信息
[29:33]	I can input those into the system	我都可以输入这个系统
[29:36]	And it will not only go back through the database	这个系统不仅会在现有的数据库中进行搜索
[29:38]	And go have I seen this anywhere in the past	而且还会在过去记录中搜索
[29:42]	It’ll basically put in an additional level scrutiny on it	这个系统还具有额外的
[29:47]	moving into the future	未来搜索模式
[29:49]	That says if this is detected now or anytime in the future	如果我输入的信息在将来某个时候匹配到对象
[29:52]	I want this to go immediately and alert me in real time	就可以立即搜索到目标
[29:57]	that you’re communicating with someone things like that	并报告我你正在和别人进行通讯
[30:04]	So I don’t know who you are	我现在还不知道你是谁
[30:05]	or anything about you	或者关于你的事情
[30:06]	Ok	嗯
[30:07]	Uh, I work for Booz Allen Hamilton, the defense contractor	我为国防承包商博思艾伦谘询公司工作
[30:15]	I am sort of on loan to the NSA	我是借调到国家安全局的
[30:17]	I don’t talk to Booz Allen boss	博思艾伦谘询公司的老板不会找我
[30:19]	I don’t get texting from Booz Allen	也不会联系我
[30:20]	It’s all from NSA	我的工作都直接来自国家安全局
[30:22]	So, I don’t know your name	我还不知道你的名字
[30:23]	Oh, sorry, I, my name is Edward Snowden, I go by Ed	哦对不起我叫爱德华·斯诺登可以叫我爱德
[30:30]	Uh, Edward Joseph Snowden is my full name	全名是爱德华·约瑟夫·斯诺登
[30:32]	S-N-O-W-D-E-N	斯-诺-登
[30:36]	Un, where do you from?	你来自哪里
[30:37]	I’m, originally I was born in North Carolina	我出生在南卡罗来纳州
[30:41]	a small town, Elizabeth City	一个叫伊丽莎白市的小镇
[30:43]	There is a Coast guard station there	那里有海岸防卫站
[30:44]	I’m from a military family	我来自一个军人家庭
[30:46]	But I spend most of my time growing up around, for me, in Maryland	但是我是在马里兰州长大的
[30:53]	And your family, what’s the consequence for them	这件事对你的家人有什么后果
[30:57]	This, this actually is what has made it the hardest	让我做出这个决定最困难的就是他们
[31:02]	My family doesn’t know what’s happening	我的家人不知道发生了什么
[31:06]	they, they’re not aware	他们完全不知情
[31:08]	I don’t think I’ll be able to keep the family ties	可能这件事后跟他们
[31:14]	that I’ve had for all my life	就没办法保持家庭联系了
[31:17]	uh, because of the risk of associating them with this	因为和他们联系有风险
[31:22]	And I’ll, I’ll leave, you know, what to publish on this	什么文件该公布什么不该公布
[31:25]	what not to publish to you guys	都由你们来决定
[31:27]	I trust you’ll be responsible on this	我相信你们会负起这个责任
[31:31]	But basically the closer I stay to my family	如果我靠我的家人太近
[31:35]	the more likely they are to be leaned on, you know	他们越有可能被牵连
[31:38]	So you don’t want me to put them into this?	所以你不想让我们把他们卷进来
[31:39]	I mean we don’t…	我们不会…
[31:40]	Yeah, we definitely want to do whatever we can	我们会尽一切全力
[31:42]	not to include them or bring them into the mix	不把他们牵扯进来
[31:45]	I-I-I, I won’t	我不会的
[31:48]	I’m sorry	不好意思
[31:49]	Can we just stop for a second	我们可以这把这个停一下
[31:50]	do the document and then we go back to that?	先看看文件再回来讨论这个吗
[31:53]	What do I need is email address that you were using or	我现在是需要你的邮箱地址还是…
[31:57]	Well, so you can send, what you encrypted	你可以发送加密的文件
[32:00]	you can send for whatever you think is appropriate	或者其他你觉得合适的东西
[32:03]	The main thing is that you have to capsulate all of this	主要就是把要发送的东西加密
[32:05]	in a way that it can’t be decrypted or read	这样在发送的过程中
[32:10]	when it’s in-transit across the network	就不会被别人拦截解密
[32:12]	right	好的
[32:12]	Or on either of the end point	这样在发送接收两端也不会被解开
[32:14]	Ok, I mean just these documents are basically all gonna be public like	这些文件在接下来的48或72小时内
[32:18]	you know, in 48 hours or 72 houses, whatever	都会被公开
[32:21]	Yeah, this is, this is simply you know you want to	你只用
[32:23]	get into the process doing this for everything	开始做就行了
[32:24]	because it seems hard, but it’s not hard	看起来很难做起来很简单
[32:26]	Ok	好的
[32:26]	This is super easy	真的超级简单
[32:27]	So, just walk me through it and…	你再解释一遍给我听然后…
[32:29]	Ok, show me the actual folder structure where these files are first	先点到那些文件的目录
[32:37]	How many documents are just sitting there?	那里有多少文件
[32:39]	7	7份
[32:40]	I can give you if you want	如果你想要我也可以给你一份
[32:42]	Ok	好
[32:44]	How many documents are we talking about?	我们手上有多少文件
[32:46]	Because let me get into Wikileaks	像维基解密
[32:48]	technical people set up a system so that	技术人员创立这样一个系统
[32:51]	It will be available for anybody to see	别人都可以看到
[32:53]	and I just wonder if it’s possible to do the same thing	我想是不是我们也可以这样做
[32:57]	That, that would be the ideal end game	这是最理想的结果
[33:01]	But because, uh, because some of these documents are legitimately classified	有些文件的保密虽然是合法的
[33:07]	in ways it could cause harm to people and methods	但这种保密会对民众和行事方式造成危害
[33:11]	And I’m comfortable in my technical ability to protect them	我觉得我的技术能力还是可以保护好这些文件的
[33:15]	I mean you can literally shoot me or torture me	你可以拿枪打我折磨我
[33:17]	and I could not disclose the password if I wanted to	但是我不会告诉你密码
[33:21]	Uh, you know, I have this sophistication to do that	我有能力做到这些
[33:25]	There are some journalists that I think could do that	有些记者也可以做到
[33:29]	but there are a number of them that couldn’t	但有一些就不行
[33:31]	But the question becomes can an organization actually	现在问题是一个组织是否也能够
[33:36]	control that information in that manner	用这种方式保护这些信息
[33:40]	without risking basically uncontrol this closure	不让它被公开
[33:43]	But I do agree with that	但是我还是同意这个想法的
[33:45]	Honestly, I don’t want to be the person making decisions	实话说我不想由我来决定
[33:49]	on what should be public or what shouldn’t	哪些能公布哪些不能
[33:51]	which is why rather than publishing these on my own	所以比起让我自己做决定
[33:54]	or putting them out openly	或者直接全部公开
[33:56]	I’m running them through journalists	我把这些文件交给你们记者
[33:58]	So my bias, you know is my thing	我是有自己的偏见的
[34:01]	Because clearly I have some strongly held views	这样就可以
[34:04]	are moved from that equation	消除我个人观点的影响
[34:06]	The public interest is being represented	用最负责的方式
[34:08]	in a most responsible manner	代表公众的利益
[34:10]	Yeah	对
[34:11]	Actually given, given your sort of, you know, geographic familiarity with UK	比方说一些你对英国非常熟悉
[34:20]	I’d like to point out that GCHQ has uh, probably	我想说英国政府通信总部的网络拦截计划
[34:27]	the most invasive network intercept program anywhere in the world	可能是世界上最具有入侵性的
[34:33]	Yeah, yeah	嗯
[34:34]	It’s called Tempora, T-E-M-P-O-R-A	这个计划名叫Tempora
[34:38]	And it’s the world’s first full-take, they call it	他们叫它世界上第一个信息全揽
[34:42]	that means content in addition to metadata on everything	意思是对一切事物除了元数据之外的内容记录
[34:48]	Uh, so, this is what I’d like to do just in terms of scheduling	我想做个时间安排
[34:51]	If it’s good with everybody else	看看大家是不是都同意
[34:52]	-Are you, you’re feeling you’re done? -I’m, I’m done	-你的问题结束了吗 -我好了
[34:56]	So, I’m interested go back to get some coze time	我想再有时间多聊聊
[35:01]	And there’s a bunch of documents	有很多文件
[35:03]	that aren’t about this first reference story	跟第一篇报道的内容无关
[35:05]	that I’d like to spend some time with you	我想再多问问你
[35:06]	Sure	好的
[35:07]	You know, kind of going it over	我想对文件仔细地了解一遍
[35:08]	Oh, I’m not going anywhere	哦我想留在这里
[35:10]	Do you feel like you’re available	你觉得你有空吗
[35:11]	You want to check about it first?	你想看看你的日程计划吗
[35:12]	Let me check my schedule	那我看看我有没有空
[35:15]	It that good for you? You wanna…	劳拉你有空吗你想…
[35:17]	-it’s great -OK	-我可以 -那好
[35:34]	Hello	你好
[35:36]	Yes?	什么事
[35:38]	My meal was great, thank you very much	我吃得很好非常感谢
[35:43]	uh, no, I still have some left there	我还有一些剩
[35:45]	I think I’m gonna be eating it later	我会迟点吃
[35:46]	so you can just leave me alone for now	你不用管我
[35:51]	Ok, great, thank you so much	好的好的谢谢你
[35:53]	Have a good one, bye	用餐愉快再见
[35:57]	Fix that real quick	很快弄好
[36:02]	So, now the phone thing I was always worried about	这个电话我一直很担心
[36:04]	These, all these new VoIP phones	这些网络电话
[36:06]	they have little computers in them	他们都有内置的微型电脑
[36:07]	And you can hot mike these over the network all the time	就算听筒坏了
[36:10]	even when their receiver’s down	你也可以通过网络进行对话
[36:12]	As long as it’s plug in, I can be listening on you	只要电话线插着就可以窃听
[36:14]	Ok	嗯
[36:15]	I haven’t even considered that earlier, but yeah	我以前都没想到但是
[36:18]	There are so many ways…	反正还是有很多方法…
[36:19]	This could be, everything in here	现在这里的事情
[36:22]	is pretty much gonna be a public record at some point	以后可能都要公布的
[36:24]	We should operate on that	我们应该考虑到这点
[36:26]	Yeah, yeah	对对
[36:28]	Basically, so do you have your, your machine?	你电脑带了吗
[36:30]	I do I do	带了带了
[36:31]	Pop that out	拿出来吧
[36:36]	Do you have an understanding of your commitment	关于报道这个泄密文件的事
[36:37]	when you guys are going to press with the first stories?	你们都知道要干什么了吗
[36:40]	Uh, It’s about 7:30 in the morning in London	明天早上7点30去伦敦
[36:43]	Un-ha, Ok	好的
[36:47]	Let’s see here	让我看一下
[36:59]	Pro Tip let’s not leave the same SD card	小提示以后千万不要把同一张SD卡
[37:01]	in your laptops forever in the future	长时间留在你的手提电脑上
[37:10]	Did you know this is for store kicking aorund	你知道这是为了你手提电脑的
[37:12]	in your, in your laptop	信息储存着想吗
[37:14]	Yeah, I mean that was the	我知道那个东西是…
[37:15]	Ok, ok, just, just make it sure	好的好的我只是想确认一下
[37:17]	Ok, yeah	好吧
[37:19]	This is …	这是…
[37:21]	You’ll have a new one looking exactly identical	你会有一个长得一模一样的
[37:24]	that’s a different archive	但是里面文档不同
[37:25]	So you may want to take a sharpie to it or something	可能你要做一下标记
[37:28]	Could you pass me my magic manteau of power, sir	能不能把我的神奇力量头套递给我
[37:33]	I’m gonna go get that	我帮你拿
[37:40]	Is that about the possibility of…	这样是为了…
[37:43]	Visual, visual collection	防止别人看到
[37:52]	I don’t think this points to anything	戴这个头套除了吓吓我们
[37:53]	in this regard, that will shock us	我觉得没什么用
[37:56]	We become pretty…	我们都变得…
[37:58]	…before he’s like, he’s like	之前他就说
[38:00]	I’m never leaving my room,	说我以后再也不会…
[38:01]	I’m never leaving anything in my room again, not a single machine	我以后再也不会把任何设备单独留在房间里
[38:04]	I was like you’ve been effected by the paranoid of …	我说你都疯了
[38:09]	In a way that was like I will never leaving a single device	他就一直说我以后再也不会把任何
[38:12]	I will never leaving them again	设备单独留在什么地方
[38:22]	alright, I’m gonna need you two enter your root password	我现在需要你输入根密码
[38:25]	because I don’t know what it is	我不知道你密码多少
[38:28]	If, if you want to use this you’re more than welcome	如果你想用这个千万别客气
[38:31]	Ok	好
[38:32]	It looks like your root password is about four characters long	你的根密码好像只有4位
[38:34]	It usually is a lot longer	以前我的密码是长的
[38:35]	but that’s just like a one time only thing right?	但是这个密码输入是一次性的
[38:37]	So it is	所以…
[38:39]	It had been a lot longer	以前是长的
[38:40]	but ever since I knew it was just like a one time only session	但是我后来知道这个原来是一次性的
[38:43]	I have been making it shorter	我就弄了个短的
[38:45]	Is that not good?	这样不好吗
[38:46]	It’s, it’s actually not	当然不好
[38:46]	I wasn’t expressing this with Laura either	我也没跟劳拉说过
[38:49]	That issue is because of the fact the it’s got to harbor your IP address	这样可以保护你的IP地址
[38:52]	People are able to identify your machine and they will able to…	因为别人能认出来这台电脑是你的然后就会…
[38:58]	I guess this is the fact that you’re about to break the most upsetting story	我猜这才是你要公布这些秘密的原因
[39:00]	Right	对
[39:00]	Yeah	是
[39:01]	So they might kind prioritize…	他们可能会优先…
[39:03]	It’s ten-letter	我以前密码是10位
[39:04]	I type it very quickly	我输入输得很快
[39:05]	it’s actually ten letter	我以前密码真的是10位
[39:06]	so ten letters would be good if they had to look through entire key’s base	如果他们要所有密码都找过来的话 10位会比较好
[39:12]	That would still probably go through a couple of days for NSA	这样就算国家安全局也要花好几天时间
[39:18]	That’s a fire alarm	这个是火警警报
[39:21]	Ok	嗯
[39:23]	I, hopefully it’s just some, like a 30-seconds test or just	我希望这个只是个半分钟测试或者…
[39:28]	Do you wanna call the desk and ask?	你要不要打电话给前台问问
[39:31]	no	别
[39:32]	I think it’s fine	我觉得应该没事
[39:33]	Yeah, I don’t think it is an issue but it’s interesting that it just…	这个不是什么问题但是有意思的是…
[39:36]	Did it happen before?	以前有没有响过
[39:37]	Maybe they got mad	可能他们怒了
[39:38]	they couldn’t listen to us through the phone anymore	因为不能再通过电话窃听我们
[39:42]	Is fire alarm going off before?	以前火警警报有没有响过
[39:45]	No, that’s the first time that’s happened	没有这是第一次
[39:48]	I mean, I think just in case they got like an alert thing to go to	把电话线拔了防止警报再响
[39:53]	That’s unusual	太不寻常了
[39:57]	You’ve probably…	你可能要…
[39:59]	I might have to ask that	我可能要去问问
[40:00]	Shouldn’t ignore that	现在不能掉以轻心
[40:01]	I don’t know.	我也不知道
[40:03]	I think it was…	我觉得这个…
[40:04]	It’s ok, ok. It not continues	好了好了没响了
[40:05]	It not continues	没响了
[40:07]	No, I’m just saying if it…if it continues	呃我是说如果它一直响的话…
[40:13]	Let me go	让我去吧
[40:14]	Let me take eyes down	我去
[40:16]	Yeah, alright	好吧
[40:17]	Yeah	好吧
[40:19]	Yeah, let’s, let’s, let’s ease for now, let me, uh, finish this up	那现在把这个先放放我要先把这个弄好
[40:26]	Alright	好的
[40:36]	no one answers because they like have 7000 calls	还没人接他们一天好像会接到很多电话
[40:43]	Hi, we heard a loud buzzing on the 10th floor	你好我们在十楼听见很响的铃声
[40:45]	Can you tell us what that is?	你能告诉我们这是什么声音吗
[40:49]	OK. OK, great, thank you, bye.	哦好的很好谢谢你再见
[40:55]	Fire alarm testing maintenance.	是火警警报测试维护
[40:57]	That’s good	还好
[40:57]	Yeah. yeah	还好
[40:58]	That’s what you wanna be here.	还好不是什么大事情
[40:59]	Nice of them to, uh,	还好
[41:01]	nice of them to let us know about that in advance	还好他们提前告诉我们
[41:07]	Uh, I just wanna give you a kind of quick tour	我想向你们简单的介绍一下这些文件
[41:11]	when Laura was looking at this	劳拉在看这个的时候
[41:12]	she was kind of salivating	震惊地一直咽口水
[41:13]	and couldn’t stop like actually reading documents	根本停不下来
[41:15]	Right, right, right.	是是是
[41:16]	So what your…is about promising that will succeed	所以你的…承诺一定会成功
[41:19]	Yeah. Yeah I just wanna kind of explain of brief overview of	对对我想简单的说一下
[41:22]	what these are and how they are organized	这些是什么文件以及它们的组织结构
[41:24]	The beginner is just some documents of interest	开头都是一些和利益有关的文件
[41:26]	the primary purposes of second archive	第二文档
[41:28]	is to bring the focus over to SSO	主要是集中在SSO上
[41:31]	I suppose to present them	我应该展示一下
[41:33]	this is in general, SSO is special source operations	总之 SSO是特殊消息处理组
[41:37]	This is a worldwide passive collection on networks	它的功能是对网络信息进行被动收集
[41:41]	that both domestic to the US and international	无论是美国国内的网络还是国际网络
[41:45]	There’s a lot of different ways they do it	他们有很多不同的信息收集手段
[41:47]	but corporate partnerships are one of the primary things	在国内他们的主要手段之一
[41:50]	they do domestically	就是和企业进行合作
[41:51]	they also do this with multinationals	对于总部设在美国的跨国公司
[41:53]	that might be headquarter in the US	也同样适用
[41:54]	or in the kind of co-owners	或者就是直接成为企业合伙人
[41:55]	They just pay and to give them the access.	他们只需要付钱给合作公司然后提供系统访问权限
[41:57]	And they also do bilaterally	而且他们还会选择
[41:59]	with these systems of certain governments	和其他国家的政府系统进行双边合作
[42:01]	and that’s based on the primary step	但都是建立在企业合作或合伙的基础上的
[42:03]	they go like alright	他们就会说
[42:04]	we will help you set the system up	我可以帮你们设置系统
[42:05]	if you give us all the data from it	但是你要提供给我们系统收集的数据
[42:08]	There’s, there’s, there’s a lot more here than	这里的文件很多
[42:13]	any one person or probably one team can do	一个人甚至一个团队可能都弄不完
[42:15]	Right	好的
[42:16]	XKeyscore deep dive.XKeyscore in general, and there’s a huge	接下来是《XKeyscore deep dive》项目
[42:21]	folder of documentation of XKeyscore,	这里有一个很大的文件夹专门用来储存有关
[42:22]	of how it works, it is the front end system	《XKeyscore》项目以及它的运行方式
[42:25]	that analysts use for querying that sort of ocean of raw signals	这是一个前段系统是分析师用来分析我刚才说的
[42:29]	that’s what I’m telling you about	搜集到的信息的原始信号
[42:30]	All of that stuff where you can sort of do the retral active searches,	通过这个你可以进行倒带搜索
[42:33]	live searches and get flagging on that	实时搜索对信号进行标记
[42:36]	XKeyscore is the front end for that	《XKscore》为这些而设计的一个前端系统
[42:40]	I just gonna show you one slide here	我就给你们看一张
[42:41]	’cause Laura thought it was valuable	因为劳拉说这个太重要的
[42:44]	Let’s talk about, kind of how these capabilities ramp up	我们现在来说说这个系统是如何达到
[42:49]	in sophistication over time	现在这么精密的一个程度的
[42:52]	This is kind of nice	好的
[42:53]	As of fiscal year of 2011	在2011年
[42:55]	They could monitor 1 billion telephone and internet sessions	每一台装有这个系统的设备
[42:59]	simultaneously per one of these devices	可以同时监控10亿台电话和网络
[43:02]	and they can collect at the rate of	他们的搜集速度
[43:04]	about 125 gigabytes a second which is a terabit	可以达到10亿字节每秒也就是万亿比特
[43:09]	That’s for just each one of these devices?	就一台机器吗
[43:11]	That’s for each one of these, yeah.	对就一台机器
[43:13]	How many tera-machines would there be then	那这样的机器一共有多少台
[43:15]	Un, Per this, back then	呃那时候…
[43:17]	There were 20 sites, there’s ten at DOD installations	一共有20个设置地点国防部有10台
[43:21]	But these were all outdated	但这些都已经非常旧了
[43:23]	We’ve expanded pretty rapidly	因为我们发展地很快
[43:26]	But still 20 sites that’s at least 20 billion	但是设置地点还是20个起码可以监控200亿
[43:29]	This all needs to get out	这些信息都需要公布出去
[43:30]	You know what I mean, it’s like	而且你知道
[43:32]	just in terms of understanding,	就靠普通人的理解能力
[43:35]	the capabilities it’s so opaque	还真的听不懂
[43:39]	It’s not science fiction.	这不是科幻小说
[43:40]	The stuff is happening right now	这是正在发生的真实的事情
[43:41]	No, I mean it’s like, the magnitude of it and like	我的意思是事关重大
[43:45]	this is a pretty inaccessible technical document	一般人根本看不到这些技术文件
[43:48]	Yes	说的是
[43:49]	But even this like, this is really chilling	但还是让人觉得毛骨悚然
[43:52]	you know what I mean and, yeah, we should have,	对于是否让政府对我们进行监控
[43:54]	we should be having the debates about whether we want government to …	我觉得应该让大家辩论决定
[43:58]	I mean this is massive and extraordinary	这件事波及范围广事态严重
[44:00]	it’s, it’s amazing	太出人意料了
[44:02]	Even though you know it…You know, even though you know that	即使你知道即使你知道现在
[44:04]	to see it like physical blueprints of it	看的是项目蓝图*
[44:08]	and sort of technical expressions of it brutally hits home	以及一些技术性词汇的表达对你产生心理冲击
[44:12]	like a super …, that is so needed	但这些就像超级一样我们很需要这个
[44:20]	This is CNN breaking news	现在是CNN重大新闻
[44:22]		数百万的美国公民电话记录遭收集 \h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h\h秘密项目曾阻止恐怖袭击
[44:23]	An explosive new report is reigniting other concerns	为了国家安全公民隐私受侵犯的爆炸性新闻
[44:24]		数百万的美国公民电话记录遭收集 \h\h\h\h\h\h\h政府监听威瑞森通讯公司电话
[44:26]	that your privacy is being violated to protect America’s security.	再一次引起人们对隐私的担忧
[44:30]	It reveals a court order giving	该新闻披露法院
[44:32]	the National Security Agency of blanketed access	秘密授权美国国家安全局
[44:35]	to millions of Verizon customers’ records on a daily basis	对威瑞森公司百万客户进行日常的通讯记录收集
[44:39]	earlier I had the chance to conduct the first TV interview with the reporter	早前我对报道该新闻的卫报记者格伦·格林沃尔德
[44:42]	who broke the story wide open, Glenn Greenwald of the Guardian	做了首次电视采访
[44:48]	congratulations on the scoop	恭喜你披露了这么大的一个新闻
[44:49]	Explain for our viewers why this is important	能跟我们的观众就这件事的重要性做一个解释吗
[44:53]	It’s important because people have understood that the law	大家都知道这件事能够进行
[44:56]	that this was done under which is the the Patriot Act	都是因为爱国者法案
[44:59]	the act in the wake of 911 was a law	这个法案是在911事件之后通过的
[45:01]	that allowed government very broad powers to get records	在常规情况下
[45:04]	about people with a lower level of suspicion in a probable cause, the traditional standard	它给予政府更大的权力对嫌疑人进行信息收集
[45:10]	so it’s always been assumed that under the Patriot Act	普遍认为根据爱国者法案
[45:12]	if the government has even any suspicion that you were involved in a crime or terrorism	如果政府有理由怀疑你涉嫌犯罪或恐怖事件
[45:16]	they can get a lot of information about you	他们就可以对你进行大量的信息收集
[45:18]	what this court order does that makes it so striking is that	此次法院颁布的授权命令这么惊人
[45:21]	it’s that it’s not direct at any individuals	是因为这不是针对那些
[45:23]	who they believe or have suspicion, uh committing crimes or part of terrorism organization	犯罪嫌疑人或恐怖分子个人的
[45:28]	it’s collecting the phone records of every single customer of Verizon business	而是针对威瑞森公司每一个用户
[45:33]	and finding out every single call that they’ve made internationally and locally	收集他们所有的境内外通话记录
[45:37]	so it’s indiscriminate and it’s sweeping	几乎是不分青红皂白扫荡式地进行
[45:39]		国家安全局监听威瑞森通讯公司电话要求公司移交数百万美国公民的相关记录
[45:40]	it’s a government program designed to collect information about all Americans	这是一个政府用来收集所有美国人信息的计划
[45:43]	not just people where they believe	不是只针对个别
[45:45]	there’s a reason to think they’ve done anything wrong	他们有理由怀疑的嫌疑人
[46:47]	Yeah, it’s, it’s a tough situation	目前我的处境很艰难
[46:49]	You know, hearing that the person that you love	听到你爱的人
[46:52]	that you spent decades with may not be coming back	共同生活了十几年的人可能就要离开你了
[47:01]	What did they ask her?	他们问了她什么
[47:04]	When was the last time she saw me	她最后一次见我是在什么时候
[47:07]	Where am I	我现在在哪里
[47:08]	What am I doing	我在做什么
[47:10]	you know what did she know about my illness	知不知道我生病了
[47:13]	things like that	之类的问题
[47:17]	so, the other, uh, they are pretty, thoroughly aware	其他事情他们很明显都知道
[47:23]	because I’m clearly not at home ill	因为我根本没有生病在家
[47:49]	Hello	你好
[47:50]	Hello	你好
[47:51]	Hello	你好
[47:52]	Oh man I’m just disconnecting from the internet	我断一下网
[47:57]	So there’s something news?	有新的消息吗
[48:01]	Yes, there was indeed some news.	还真的有新消息
[48:03]	I have config today I think maybe just a few hours ago	几个小时前有信息显示
[48:08]	What kind of people visited	来的是什么人
[48:11]	an HR lady	一位自称是来自人力资源管理部门的女士
[48:14]	I’m assuming from NSA is supposed to, is supposed to Booz Allen	我猜应该是国家安全局到博思艾伦咨询公司的人
[48:19]	because she’s a complete white police officer which means the NSA police	她是个白人女警可能是国家安全局的
[48:23]	They are planning breaking my house	他们今天想要闯入我家
[48:24]	which regular police don’t do	一般的警察不会这么做
[48:27]	Does she live there?	她住在那里吗
[48:28]	Yeah, she lives there. So I told her to corporate fully	对我告诉她要全力配合
[48:32]	I can’t hang my phone, just one second	我现在不能挂电话等我一下
[48:34]	You know worry about herself	我跟她说多担心担心自己吧
[48:35]	You know, I’m gonna do, I’ll just take out the stuff I want to use	我拿一下要用东西
[48:38]	OK	好
[48:40]	OK. Well, look, I mean this is not a surprise at all	这件事完全在意料之内
[48:43]	Not, yeah, I know	对我知道
[48:44]	I planed for it but it’s just you know when its’ impact	这一切都在计划之中
[48:46]	and they’re talking to you it’s a little bit different	但是真的发生了感觉还是有点不一样
[48:49]	absolutely	这是肯定的
[48:51]	But it’s possible that they’ just notice that you are missing	他们有可能发现你失踪了
[48:54]	I guess it’s not really impossible	有可能
[48:56]	It-it-it-is, but yeah there I mean	是有可能
[49:08]	So I obviously was focused on the thing that appears this morning.	我还在想今天早上的事
[49:14]	How was, how does she react	她是什么反应
[49:16]	Was she relatively calm about it	是不是非常镇静
[49:17]	She’s, she’s relatively calm	她相当镇静
[49:19]	Does she know anything about what you are doing	她知不知道你做的事
[49:20]	She has, she has no idea	完全不知道
[49:23]	and that’s I mean, I feel badly about that	虽然我觉得不告诉她不好
[49:27]	but that’s the only way I can think of where	但是这是唯一可以保全她的办法
[49:29]	like she can’t be in trouble	她不能有危险
[49:31]	Do you basically do ‘ I have to go somewhere	你有没有跟她说我要去个地方
[49:33]	for reasons that I can’t tell you ‘ about kind of thing	但是不能告诉你之类的
[49:34]	I just disappeared when she was on vacation	她去度假的时候我才离开的
[49:39]	and I left notes saying hey I’d be going for a while for work	但是我留了纸条给她说我要出差工作
[49:42]	which isn’t unusual for me as my reasons you know, so	这个理由很对我来说已经是家常便饭了
[49:46]	OK, let me ask you a couple of things just quickly	我想问你几个问题
[49:49]	Are they gonna be able to go to your stuff and figure out what you talk	他们有没有可能拿到你留下来的东西从中找到信息
[49:56]	In some kind of some sort of like peripheral senses, but not necessarily	有可能但不一定
[50:02]	Yes, because I cast such a wide net	我撒了一个很大的网
[50:06]	If they do that, the only thing they’re gonna do	如果他们这么做的话
[50:07]	is they’re gonna have a hard attack	他们会遭到沉重打击
[50:08]	’cause they’re gonna go like	就算找到我的东西
[50:09]	he has access to everything	他们只会觉得说他什么都知道
[50:11]	and they’re not gonna know	但是具体我做了什么
[50:12]	what specifically has been done	他们就完全摸不着头脑
[50:14]	I think they’re gonna start to actually feel a little better	不管怎么样他们不可能对这件事一直那么热衷
[50:17]	although they are not gonna be wild about this in any case	等到事情告一段落我觉得他们就会开始自我感觉良好
[50:22]	When they see that the story is a kind of cleaving to a trend, you know	因为找我不像是给一个单子说
[50:25]	it’s not like here’s the list of everybody who works everywhere	这个人在哪儿工作那么简单
[50:28]	Right.	说的对
[50:29]	I also think you know	但是我觉得有可能他们
[50:30]	they’re gonna be paranoid in the extreme	会变成一个非常极端的偏执狂
[50:32]	and assuming all kinds of worst case scenarios which is gonna you know	假设各种最坏的情况
[50:37]	I think, make them react unwisely	然后作出一些不恰当的回应
[50:40]	They are probably not gonna be particularly rational in their part	有可能他们会采取比较不理智的方法
[50:44]	but at the same time there’s	但是同时我也觉得
[50:46]	I do think they are limited for the moment	政府目前所有的行为都是受到限制的
[50:49]	I, I agree and I mean I had kind of time	我同意你的看法我觉得应该要让
[50:52]	to set a stage where	事情发展到能给我们提供
[50:53]	we all enjoy at least a minimum level of protection	起码的保护的地步
[50:56]	you know no matter who we are	不管我们的身份
[50:57]	who’s involved in this you know	不管我们是不是参与到这件事情中
[50:58]	you’re either a journalist	不管是不是记者
[50:59]	Right.	对
[51:00]	or you’re either out of jurisdiction	不管是不是在这个范围之内
[51:01]	so we have some time to play this	所以在政府开始有所行动之前
[51:03]	before they can really investigate	我们还有时间
[51:04]	I think it’s over you know the weeks	等他们的律师做好准备
[51:06]	when they have time to get lawyers really sort to go	大概需要几个星期的时间
[51:08]	This is a special situation how can we interpret this tour in advance	情况太特殊了对接下来的事情我们要怎么预测
[51:12]	like we see them do this all the time you know	根据19世纪40年代的法律
[51:14]	whether it’s drones or wiretapping whatever the go	不管是无人机窃听装置还是其他的手段
[51:17]	while according to this law from the 1840s	他们就一直在我们眼皮子底下进行信息收集
[51:20]	and we can actually explain why there is this authority	政府的所作所为虽然也能得到解释
[51:23]	But that takes time	但是要让一切都被接受还是需要时间
[51:24]	and that takes agreement	以及民众的同意
[51:25]	Yeah, you know, I mean, I think they are public	对我认为他们一切行动都在明处
[51:28]	we are out there to, as journalists	作为记者
[51:31]	the more protection that’s gonna give us as well	我们可能可以得到更多的保护
[51:34]	Have you started to give thought	你决定好什么时候
[51:35]	to when you are ready to come forward	亮明身份了吗
[51:37]	I’m, I’m ready whenever	什么时候都可以
[51:40]	honestly I think there’s sort of agreement	我觉得大家都同意
[51:43]	that is not going to bias the reporting process	新闻报道中心不能走偏
[51:46]	that’s my primary concern at this point	这是我目前最担心的
[51:48]	I don’t want to give myself into the issue of	对于即将发生的事情
[51:50]	what’s gonna happening anyway and	我不想让自己成为中心
[51:51]	where it takes away from stories	这会把注意力从他们发表的报道上
[51:54]	they are getting out	都转移到我身上
[52:34]	We are talking about tens of millions of Americans	我们现在的话题是成千上万的美国公民
[52:36]	who weren’t suspected in doing anything	即使没有犯罪的嫌疑
[52:39]	who were surveilled in this way	也正在以这种方式被监控着
[52:41]	Here are thoughts for a moment	大家想一想
[52:42]	I’d like to continue this conversation	我想继续讨论这个话题
[52:43]	There are really important sensitive issues	这些是非常重要非常敏感的事情
[52:45]	the public out there has a right to know	公众有权利知道事情的真相
[52:47]	what’s going on standby	有权知道到底发生了什么
[52:49]	This is CNN Breaking News.	现在是CNN最新新闻
[52:52]	Another explosive article has just appeared this time	又一爆炸性新闻
[52:54]	in the Washington Post on its Breaking News	刊登在了华盛顿邮报最新新闻的板块上
[52:57]	it reveals another broad and secret	揭示了美国政府
[53:00]	US government surveillance program.	另一监视计划
[53:02]	The Washington Post and Guardian in London	美国华盛顿邮报和英国卫报
[53:04]	reporting that the NSA and the FBI	报道了美国国家安全局和美国联邦调查局
[53:07]	are tapping directly into the central servers	直接进入美国九大网络公司的中心服务器
[53:10]	of nine leading internet companies	搜集数据
[53:12]	including Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook	包括微软雅虎谷歌脸书
[53:15]	AOL, Skype, YouTube and Apple	美国在线 Skype YouTube和苹果
[53:18]	The Post says they are extracting audio, video	华盛顿邮报称他们搜集语音视频
[53:21]	photographs, emails, documents	照片电子邮件文件和连接日志
[53:23]	and connection logs that enable analysts	根据这些分析员可以掌握
[53:26]	to track a person’s movements	一个人的行踪
[53:27]	and contacts over time	以及社交情况
[53:29]	Let’s discuss this latest revelation	接下来我们将就最新的报道进行讨论
[53:32]	that coming out fast	这一报道的进展速度很快
[53:33]	go Binney, the former official of NSA	宾尼是2001年辞职的前国家安全局官员
[53:35]	who quit back in 2001	你先来谈谈吧
[53:38]	you were anger of what was going on	以前你对国家安全局的所作所为感到不满
[53:39]	you’ve been known as whistleblower right now	一直以来你也被称作告密者
[53:41]	Though what do you think about this Washington Post story?	你是怎样看待华盛顿邮报所披露的事件的
[53:44]	Well I assume it’s just the continuation	我认为这是
[53:46]	of what they’ve been doing all along.	国家安全局一直以来的监视计划的延续而已
[53:47]	So you are not surprised	所以你一点也不吃惊
[53:48]	Not at all.	是的
[53:49]	Do you have any ideas of who’s leaking this information	你知道是谁泄露这些消息的吗
[53:51]	I don’t know who leaked this	我不知道是谁泄露的
[53:53]	but I have no doubt that	但是我确信
[53:55]	the administration will launch an investigation	他们并不会去调查
[53:57]	not into who approve these programs	是谁批准了这些计划
[53:59]	but into who leaked the information.	还是去调查是谁泄露了秘密
[54:01]	I’m not shocked the companies deny it yet	这些公司矢口否认我对此不感到吃惊
[54:04]	I don’t assume….	我并不是说…
[54:05]	He blamed it	他是在谴责这件事
[54:06]	There maybe some technical bases	他们可以用一些技术问题当做借口
[54:08]	on which they can say that we are not actively collaborating or	说他们不是主动收集资料
[54:12]	they don’t have what we consider in narrow definition	我们认为的”直接进入服务器”
[54:15]	to be direct access to our servers	跟他们想的不一样
[54:17]	But I do know is that	但是我能肯定的是
[54:18]	I’ve talked to more than one person	因为我跟很多人谈过
[54:19]	who has sat at a desk	他们坐在办公桌前
[54:22]	added a web portal and typed out commands	进入一个门户网站输入命令之后
[54:25]	and reached into those servers from the distance	就能远程进入服务器
[54:28]	so whatever they wanna call that	所以无论他们怎么说
[54:30]	that’s what happening.	这就是事实
[54:31]	What, What I will call it is the single biggest infringement	我觉得它是到目前为止
[54:34]	on American civil liberties probably all-time, isn’t it	对美国公民自由权利的最大的侵犯是吧
[54:37]	Politicians already have the New York Time now today	今天政客们都已经拿到了纽约时报
[54:39]	saying the administration	报纸上说
[54:40]	has lost all credibility	奥巴马政府已经失去了所有公信力
[54:41]	Yeah, the New York Time slammed	对纽约时报就用这件事
[54:43]	President Obama for this	猛喷奥巴马总统
[54:44]	Frankly I was used to that	老实说我已经对此见怪不怪了
[54:45]	The New York Time just slammed George Bush	纽约时报也因为小布什
[54:47]	for protecting the country for the steps he took	做的保护国家政策喷过他
[54:49]	I don’t wanna start to drop our guard	我不想放松警惕
[54:50]	I don’t want us to be stuck again	我也不想让大家再上当受骗
[54:52]	As we saw in Boston, Anderson	和我们在波士顿看到的一样安德森
[54:54]	people are willing to sacrifice their civil liberties,	人们很乐意牺牲自己的自由
[54:57]	people sheltered inside ’cause they’re not…	他们住在自己的房子里因为他们没有…
[54:59]	How can you believe in freedom, do you think	现在还怎么相信自由你说
[55:00]	I mean, try play the devil’s advocate for me	让我来说几句大实话
[55:02]	When you have secret courts,	一个国家有秘密法庭
[55:03]	secret operations like prison, secret investigations	秘密操作的东西比如说监狱秘密调查
[55:08]	which is going to ever… call for every America’s live	对每个美国人的通话都进行监控
[55:11]	without any member of the American public knowing about it	但是美国公民对此却一无所知
[55:13]	that’s not freedom, isn’t it	这还是自由吗
[55:14]	In 2008 they eliminated the warrant requirement	在2008年政府决定
[55:17]	for all conversations	除了他们在美国收买美国人
[55:19]	expect one that takes place	协助监听活动的对话外
[55:21]	buying among the Americans	民众对话的监听
[55:22]	exclusively on the American soil	不需要获得批准
[55:24]	So they don’t need warrants now for people	所以现在对在国外的外国人
[55:26]	who are foreigners outside the US	监听他们更不需要许可了
[55:28]	but they also don’t need warrants for Americans	但是现在就算是在美国的美国人
[55:31]	in the United States communicating with people	只要和他们认为是在国外的人进行通讯
[55:33]	reasonably believed to be outside of the US.	他们也可以不经过许可就监听通讯
[55:36]	So again the fact they are no checks,	所以事实就是
[55:38]	no oversight about who’s looking over the NSA shoulder	国家安全局不受任何审查或监督
[55:41]	means they can take whatever they want	这就意味着他们私底下
[55:42]	and in fact that it was behind the wall of secrecy	想拿什么就拿什么
[55:45]	and they threaten people who want to expose it	他们还威胁想要曝光他们人
[55:47]	means that whatever they are doing	他们现在不管做什么
[55:49]	even violating the law	就算是违法行为
[55:50]	is something that we unlikely to know	我们也不知道
[55:52]	until we start having real investigations	除非我们对政府行为
[55:54]	and real transparency into	进行真正的调查
[55:56]	what it is the government is doing.	要求透明公开
[55:58]	Glenn Greenwald	格伦格林沃德
[55:58]	congratulations again on exposing what is a truth scandal	再一次恭喜你揭露了这一丑闻
[56:01]	Appreciate you enjoying me	谢谢你的报道
[56:49]	Yeah, I just heard from Lindsay	我和琳赛联系上了
[56:52]	and she’s still alive which is good	她还活着这简直太好了
[56:56]	and for my rent checks apparently	我的房租支票显然
[56:59]	are no longer getting through to my landlord	没有再到我的房东手里
[57:02]	so they said if we don’t pay them in five days	所以他们警告说5天之内不交房租
[57:04]	we’ll be evicted	我们就会被赶出去
[57:06]	which is strange	这太奇怪了
[57:07]	because we’ve got a system set up	因为我们设置了一个系统
[57:08]	to automatically pay them	会自动打钱给他们
[57:13]	So this then, apparently these construction trucks	然后我家门外的街上
[57:15]	are all over the street over my house	都是工程车
[57:22]	I wonder what they are looking for	我想知道他们在找什么
[58:07]	It is, it is an unusual… kinda hard to	这种感觉是很奇怪的
[58:11]	hard like to describe or convey words	难以用语言来表达
[58:16]	but not knowing what’s gonna happen in the next day	一个人不知道接下来的一个小时
[58:19]	the next hour, the next week	一天甚至一个星期之内会发生什么
[58:21]	It’s scary	这让人很害怕
[58:22]	but at the same time it’s liberating	但同时我也觉得松了口气
[58:23]	You know	你知道相比之下
[58:26]	The planning comes a lot easier	有计划事情就会容易的多
[58:27]	because you don’t have that many variables taken into play	因为没有很多变数
[58:30]	you can only act and then act again	你只能一遍一遍照着做
[58:34]	Now all these phone calls	现在所有的通话都有电子记录
[58:35]	are being recorded digitally not for content	但不是记录谈话内容
[58:35]		今日美国监视之眼网络从最大的公司挖掘数据电话数以百万的电话被监听
[58:37]	but for origin and destination	而是为了记录呼叫人和被呼叫人
[58:39]	now warm the government is going right	警告现在政府可以直接进入
[58:41]	into the servers of these large internet companies	大型网络公司服务器
[58:43]	How does the government politically speaking	政府的理由是为了国家安全
[58:46]	make the argument that this is essential to national security	而不是对个人隐私的侵犯
[58:49]	and not a dramatic overreach in terms of personal privacy	他们是怎么解释的呢
[58:54]	It’s difficult, Matt	马特政府要进行解释真的很困难
[58:55]	because as Peter was pointing out last night	正如昨晚皮特所说
[58:57]	we had an extraordinary late night close to midnight	一切即将真相大白
[59:00]	announcement and declassification from the director of National Intelligence	国家情报局局长发表了公告实施解密
[59:04]	they are scrambling	他们现在一片混乱
[59:05]	the administrations are already supported strongly	政府已经获得了
[59:07]	by leaders in both parties from the Intelligence Committees	情报委员会两大党派领导人的极力支持
[59:10]	GCHQ has an internal Wikipedia at the top secret you know,	英国政府通信总部自己的机密文件都有内部文件百科
[59:15]	super classified level	都是非常机密的文件
[59:16]	where anybody working in Intelligence	任何在国家情报局工作的人
[59:18]	can work on anything they want	都可以得到任何他们想要的信息
[59:19]	Yeah	记住了
[59:20]	That’s what it is. I’m giving it to you.	就是这个我把它给你
[59:21]	You can make the decisions on that	你来做决定
[59:23]	what’s appropriate, what’s not.	什么该公布
[59:24]	It’s gonna be documents of a few of different types,	这些都是不同形式的资料
[59:26]	pictures, power points or documents, stuff like that	比如照片幻灯片和文件类似这些
[59:30]	So can I take that seat	我能坐吗
[59:31]	Yeah	当然
[59:36]	So these documents they will show…..	所以这些资料内容是…
[59:39]	Yeah, there will be a couple of more documents on that	文件百科里的资料更多
[59:41]	That’s only one part though	现在这些只是一部分
[59:42]	like talks about TEMPOR and a little more thing	都是有关《TEMPRO》和一些别的东西
[59:45]	that’s the Wiki articles itself	但是文件百科里
[59:47]	It was also talking about a self-developed tool called UDAQ, U-D-A-Q	还介绍了他们自己研发的UDAQ工具
[59:53]	It’s their search tool for all the stuff they collected was what it looks like	用来搜索他们收集的资料
[59:57]	It’s gonna be projects,	里面还有很多有关计划项目
[59:58]	it’s gonna be trouble-shooting pages for particular tool	特殊工具故障维修的资料
[1:00:02]	Thanks	谢谢
[1:00:05]	When do you think you will be public?	你觉得你什么时候会亮明身份
[1:00:08]	I think it’s pretty soon	很快
[1:00:10]	I mean, with the reaction	我出现带来的影响
[1:00:11]	it’s escalating more quickly	肯定会加速事态的发展
[1:00:12]	I think pretty much as soon as	只要他们开始拿我作文章
[1:00:14]	they start trying to make this about me	我就会现身
[1:00:16]	which should be any day now	应该很快了
[1:00:17]	Yeah	是
[1:00:19]	I’ll come out, just go, hey, you know,	我会亮明身份
[1:00:21]	this is, this is not a question of somebody	这件事不是说一个人
[1:00:24]	skulking around in the shadows	藏在暗处偷偷摸摸地做事
[1:00:26]	These are public issues	这些事事关公众
[1:00:27]	these are not my issues, you know	并不是我一个人的事
[1:00:29]	these are everybody’s issues	这是每个人的事
[1:00:31]	and I’m not afraid of you, you know	我不怕他们
[1:00:33]	you are not gonna bulling me into silence	他们可以把别人打到闭嘴
[1:00:34]	like you’ve done to everybody else.	在我身上没用
[1:00:37]	And if nobody else gonna do it	如果这件事没有人做
[1:00:38]	I will	那么我会挺身而出
[1:00:39]	and hopefully when I’m gone	希望死了我这个夏明翰
[1:00:41]	whatever you do to me there will be somebody	后面还有后来人
[1:00:43]	else will do the same thing	会做跟我同样的事
[1:00:44]	It will be the sort of internet principle of Hydra.	就像九头蛇网络法则一样
[1:00:47]	You know you can stop one person	一个人被阻止了
[1:00:49]	but it’s gonna be seven more of us.	会有七个人再站出来
[1:00:51]	Yeah.	是的
[1:00:55]	Are you getting more nervous	你是不是觉得越来越紧张了
[1:00:57]	Uh, I mean, no, I, I think the way I look at stress	没有主要是我看待压力的方式
[1:01:06]	particularly because I sort of knew this was coming	我知道会发生什么事
[1:01:09]	you know, because I, sort of, volunteered to walk into it	这些事都是我自愿的
[1:01:16]	I’m already sort of familiar with the idea	我已经很习惯这些想法了
[1:01:20]	I’m not worried about	我不担心
[1:01:21]	when somebody like, busts the door	如果有人突然破门而入
[1:01:23]	suddenly I’ll get nervous and a little effected	那瞬间我是会受到影响感到紧张
[1:01:25]	but I totally do, you know	但是其实我真的不紧张
[1:01:29]	I’m eating a little less that’s the only	我想我唯一的变化就是
[1:01:31]	the only difference I think.	吃的比以前少了
[1:01:39]	Let’s talk about the issue	我们来讨论一下
[1:01:40]	with when we’re gonna say who you are	什么时候公布你的身份
[1:01:42]	yeah	好
[1:01:44]	This is you know, you have to talk me through this	我们必须要好好谈谈
[1:01:47]	because I have a big worry about this	因为我很担心
[1:01:49]	ok, tell me	好说吧
[1:01:50]	which is that if we come out	我担心如果我们说出了你的身份
[1:01:53]	and I know that you believe that your detection is inevitable	我知道你认为他们找到你是肯定的
[1:01:59]	and it’s inevitable imminently	这也是早晚的事
[1:02:02]	There’s you know in the New York Times today Charlie Savage	今天纽约时报的查理·萨维奇
[1:02:04]	the fascinating Sherlock Holmes like of reporting	报道得跟福尔摩斯一样很吸引人
[1:02:08]	did use that fact that	他说自从奥巴马上台后
[1:02:09]	there’s been these leaks since succession	就有很多人开始泄密
[1:02:11]	probably means there’s some one person who’s decided to leak as much as	这意味着有人想要爆料爆的越多…
[1:02:14]	someone else supported you as saying I was one of your readers	有的人通过成为你的读者来支持你
[1:02:16]	Yeah	是
[1:02:17]	somebody else who put a lot of things	有的人则做事实
[1:02:18]	I mean it’s fine	我想说的是这没关系
[1:02:20]	I want people, I want be like, you know like	我想让别人
[1:02:23]	This is the person I want to start introducing the concept that	我想介绍你的时候
[1:02:26]	this is a person who has a particular set of political objective	告诉他们你的目标是
[1:02:30]	about informing the world	告诉世界
[1:02:31]	of what is taking place	发生的一切
[1:02:32]	you know, I didn’t show	我现在都没有亮明你的身份
[1:02:33]	I’m keeping it all anonymous, totally	我写你都是匿名的
[1:02:36]	But I wanna to start introducing you	但是我想以一种相比之下
[1:02:38]	in that kind of incremental way	比较高调的方式介绍你
[1:02:40]	but here’s, here’s the thing	问题是
[1:02:41]	what I’m concerned about is that we come out and say	我担心我们把你身份公开以后
[1:02:45]	here this is and here is what he did	就肯定会说到你做了什么事
[1:02:47]	the whole thing that we talked about	然后公开我们说过的话
[1:02:48]	then we’re basically be doing the government’s work for them	我们这样是在做政府该做的事
[1:02:51]	we’re basically be handing them, you know, a confession	相当于是我们自己去告诉他们
[1:02:56]	and helping them identify who found it	我们找到了泄密的人
[1:02:58]	I mean maybe you’re right	也许你是对的
[1:02:59]	maybe they will find out quickly	他们可能很快找到你
[1:03:01]	and maybe they don’t know	也可能根本不知道是谁泄密
[1:03:02]	but is there any possibity of they won’t	不是有没有这种可能性是他们没找到
[1:03:04]	are we, are we kinda giving them stuff	我们相当于把他们要的东西双手奉上
[1:03:07]	we don’t, or, or	我们不…
[1:03:09]	there’s a possibility that they don’t want to reveal it	有可能他们已经知道了但是不想公开
[1:03:11]	because they don’t know	因为他们不知道…
[1:03:12]	Or that they don’t know	或者他们不知道
[1:03:13]	what we are gonna telling them	我们这样就是主动去告诉他们
[1:03:14]	Like is that possible that they’re gonna need like	也许他们不确定的情绪可能会
[1:03:16]	two or three months of uncertainty	持续两到三个月
[1:03:18]	and we will gonna be solving that problem for them	我们这样是在帮他们解决问题
[1:03:20]	or let me just say the all part	请允许我这样说
[1:03:23]	maybe doesn’t matter to you	也许这些跟你没关系
[1:03:24]	like maybe you want it…	也许是你想这么做…
[1:03:25]	maybe I mean you are not coming out	也许也许你想现身
[1:03:28]	because you think they’re inevitably gonna catch you	不是因为你觉得他们肯定会抓到你
[1:03:31]	and you want to do it first	所以你选择主动现身
[1:03:33]	you are coming up because you wanna fucking come out.	你想站出来就是因为你想站出来
[1:03:35]	You want to be there	你想站出来
[1:03:36]	I mean this is the thing	就是
[1:03:38]	I don’t want to hide on this skulking around	我一点也不想躲躲藏藏
[1:03:40]	I don’t think I should have to	我也不觉得我需要这样做
[1:03:42]	Obviously there are circumstances they’re saying that	他们说特殊情况特殊处理
[1:03:44]	I think it is powerful to come out and be like,	但我觉得先发制人更有力
[1:03:47]	Look, I’m not afraid you know,	我并不害怕
[1:03:49]	I don’t think other people should either, you know	我也不认为人们需要感到害怕
[1:03:51]	I was sitting in the office right next to you last week	因为上周在办公室我就坐在你旁边
[1:03:54]	You know, we all have stake in this	这件事跟每个人都有关系
[1:03:55]	This is our country	这是我们的国家
[1:03:56]	and the balance of power between the citizenry and the government	公民与政府间权利的平衡
[1:04:00]	is becoming that of the ruling and the ruled	已经变成统治者与被统治者的关系
[1:04:03]	as supposed to actually you know the elected and the electorate	但其实应该是当选人和选民的关系
[1:04:07]	OK, so that’s what I need to hear. That, this is not about…	很好这是我想听到的答案
[1:04:12]	But I, I do wanna say I don’t think there is a case	在这么长的时间里
[1:04:15]	that I’m not gonna be discovered in the fullness of time,	我不是说他们找不到我
[1:04:19]	it’s just a question of time.	这只是时间问题
[1:04:20]	You are right	你说得对
[1:04:20]	you could take them a long time	他们要找到我可能是要花点时间
[1:04:21]	I don’t think they will	但是我觉得不会太久
[1:04:22]	but I didn’t try to hide the footprint because	但是我根本没想藏起来
[1:04:24]	again I intended to come forward.	我是打算挺身而出的
[1:04:26]	OK.	好的…
[1:04:27]	I’m gonna post this morning	今天早上我会发表文章
[1:04:28]	just a general defense of whistleblowers	为告密者进行辩护
[1:04:31]	That’s fine	好的
[1:04:31]	and you in particular, without saying anything about you	不会透露任何有关你身份的信息
[1:04:35]	I’m gonna post that right when I get back	我一回去就马上报道
[1:04:36]	And I, and I’m almost doing like a big fuck you to all the people	让那些一直说要对告密者进行调查的人
[1:04:38]	who keep like, talking about investigation	去他妹的
[1:04:40]	That, I want that to be fearlessness	我要大胆得做
[1:04:44]	and fuck you to like the bowling attack	跟保龄球一样撞他妹的
[1:04:46]	It’s got to be completely pervading, everything we do	我们接下来做什么事都要这么想
[1:04:50]	And I think that’s brilliant	我觉得这个想法很好
[1:04:51]	I mean your principles on this I love, I can support them of	你的原则我很喜欢我也会全力支持
[1:04:55]	because it is, it’s inverting the model	因为这样可以改变政府
[1:04:58]	the government has laid out	他们不能再跟以前一样
[1:04:59]	where people who were trying to, you know, say the truth, skulking round	用老一套对付那些讲真话的人让他们躲躲藏藏
[1:05:02]	they hide in the dark	藏在暗处
[1:05:03]	they quote anonymously on that	匿名报信
[1:05:05]	I say yes, fuck that	是的去你的
[1:05:06]	OK. Listen here’s the plan	听着计划是这样的
[1:05:08]	Then, I mean and this is the thing,	我认为我们都是做了
[1:05:10]	it’s like I think we all just felt the fact this is the right way to do it	我们该做的事
[1:05:14]	You feel the power of your choice	你的选择给予你力量
[1:05:17]	you know what I mean	你明白我的意思
[1:05:18]	It’s like I want that power to be felt in the world.	我想让世界也感受到这种力量
[1:05:20]	OK	好
[1:05:21]	And it is the big,	这是
[1:05:22]	I mean it is the ultimate standing up to them, right?	这是和他们的终极对抗
[1:05:25]	Like I’m not gonna fuck hide even for like one second	我他妈一秒都不想躲了
[1:05:28]	I’m gonna get right into your face	我们直接去打他们的脸
[1:05:30]	yeah	好
[1:05:31]	You don’t have to investigate	你们不用再调查了
[1:05:32]	’cause now think, you investigate, here I am	现在我人就在这里
[1:05:34]	Yeah	对
[1:05:35]	you know and I think that’s just incredibly powerful	我认为这样超有气场
[1:05:38]	and then the question just becomes	现在的问题就是
[1:05:40]	how do we do this in the right you know the perfect way	我们如何把这件事做好做得完美
[1:05:43]	and that’s my burden and that’s what I gonna…	这是我考虑了很久的事情…
[1:05:45]	So today’s gonna be the story in the morning	今天的报道会在上午发布
[1:05:49]	assuming that it doesn’t change in the Guardian man	卫报那边不变动的话
[1:05:51]	it’s gonna be the story in the morning,	大概就是早上了
[1:05:52]	Just keep them going,	就按计划进行下去
[1:05:53]	just keep like the disclosure’s coming in big one at night	让这次的泄密泄得更猛烈一些
[1:05:57]	now it’s becoming like OK, this is a major leak	然后变成一次大揭密
[1:06:01]	and after today we post truth stuff that we’re gonna post	今天之后我们会发布真实文件
[1:06:04]	It’s gonna be what the fuck is this leak and who did it	事情就会变成我靠这些都是谁干的
[1:06:08]	I guarantee you	当然是你干的
[1:06:20]	and it suppose to make sure, move over slightly	稍微挪一下
[1:06:22]	you want me to move it more over	这样
[1:06:24]	ok	好了
[1:06:26]	alright, alright	好了好了
[1:06:29]	we’re rolling	开始录了
[1:06:30]	So let’s begin with some basic background information, like just state your name	先从你的一些基本信息开始吧比如你的名字
[1:06:35]	what positions you held in Intelligence Community	你以前在情报机构的职位
[1:06:37]	and how long you worked with that community	你在那里工作了多久
[1:06:41]	ok	好的
[1:06:42]	just more regard how in depth…	就是不要太深入
[1:06:44]	just in general, like I’m currently an infrastructure analyst in Booz Allen Hamilton	像我是博思艾伦谘询公司的基础设施分析员
[1:06:49]	not going through my whole back story	就不用讲我整个背景经历是吗
[1:06:51]	yeah	对
[1:06:51]	ok	好的
[1:06:52]	just like, yes, some brief kind of…	就简洁一点
[1:06:54]	OK	好
[1:06:55]	My name is Edward Snowden, I’m 29 years old	我叫爱德华·斯诺登 29岁
[1:06:58]	I worked for Booz Allen Hamilton as an infrastructure analyst	我就职于夏威夷国家安全局的承包商
[1:07:02]	for NSA in Hawaii	博思艾伦谘询公司
[1:07:05]	And what are some of positions you have held previously within the intelligence community?	你以前在情报机构担任过什么职位
[1:07:09]	I’ve been a system engineer, a system administrator,	我担任过系统工程师系统管理员
[1:07:14]	a senior adviser for the Central Intelligence Agency	中央情报局高级顾问
[1:07:20]	a solutions consultant and a telecommunications information system officer	解决方案顾问电信信息系统官员
[1:07:26]	And what kind of clearance have you held, the kind of classification	你的权限能看到最高几级机密信息
[1:07:30]	Top secret	最高机密
[1:07:36]	So people in my level of access for system administration	像我一样的系统管理员
[1:07:40]	or as an infrastructure analyst	或者基础设施分析员
[1:07:42]	typically have a higher access	我们的访问权限
[1:07:45]	than a NSA employee would normal have	比普通国家安全局雇员高一点
[1:07:48]	normal NSA employees have combination of clearances	普通国家安全局雇员的权限密码
[1:07:51]	called TS SI TK and GEMA	称为TS SI TK和GEMA
[1:07:57]	That’s top secret signals of intelligence Talent-Keyhole, GEMA	这些都是最高机密的象征 Talent-Keyhole Gema
[1:08:02]	they all relate to certain things they’re sort of core to the NSA mission	它们都和国家安全局的任务核心有关系
[1:08:06]	As a system administrator	如果是系统管理员
[1:08:09]	you get a special clearance called privi-acc for privileged access	你可以拿到名为PRIVAC的特殊访问权限
[1:08:12]	which allows you to be exposed to information of any classification	不管你的职位等级是多少
[1:08:17]	regardless of what your position actually needs	各个权限的信息你都可以访问
[1:08:54]	…Just before we go	在节目结束之前
[1:08:56]	a reminder of our top story	让我们再次重温一下今天的头条新闻
[1:08:58]	CIA took the co-worker Edward Snowden, says	中情局已经认定其雇员爱德华·斯诺登
[1:09:01]	He’s responsible for leaking information	泄露了机密信息
[1:09:03]	that US authority has been monitoring phone and Internet data	披露美国政府监控电话和网络数据
[1:09:08]	The US justice department confirmed it’s in the third status	美国司法部证实
[1:09:12]	on a criminal investigation	现在正在犯罪调查的第三阶段
[1:09:14]	Leave it longer or cut it shorter	你觉得我
[1:09:15]	what do you think	剃长点好还是短点好
[1:09:16]	As far as the video, the people saw	跟电视采访的时候
[1:09:18]	In my for now, was it	比起来
[1:09:21]	’cause I can’t go all the way down this	没办法都剃光
[1:09:23]	It could still be stumble	可能还会有胡渣
[1:09:24]	and I don’t have the blade for closer	我没有能剃得更干净的剃须刀
[1:09:29]	Are you going to talk to other media about this story today	你今天会和媒体谈论这个事情吗
[1:09:32]	I am	会的
[1:09:33]	Will you be coming through…	你能够…
[1:09:36]		格伦·格林沃尔德记者卫报
[1:09:37]	…about where is Snowden now? What his plans are	斯诺登在哪里他有什么计划
[1:09:39]	Well, obviously, I’m not gonna talk about that	我不想说这个
[1:09:41]	So I must need your question’s just gonna be pretty, pretty…	你的问题…
[1:09:43]	What are your plans? Please	你的计划是什么
[1:09:44]	Are you staying in HK for the time being	你目前还呆在香港吗
[1:09:46]	For a little while	会在这里停留一会儿
[1:09:47]	Do you have any hopes to write more about this story	你对继续报道这个事件有希望吗
[1:09:50]	or are you stopping new writing about this story	还是说你就不报道了
[1:09:53]	No, I’m liking continue writing about it	我会继续下去的
[1:09:54]	Have you had any pressure from the US authorities	对于继续报道这件事
[1:09:57]	about continuing to report on this	美国政府有给你压力吗
[1:09:58]	No	没有
[1:09:59]	And have you heard anything about	你有没有听说
[1:10:01]	what could be the ask of Hong Kong authorities	香港政府在此次事件中
[1:10:04]	toward what’ s in the case	有什么要求
[1:10:05]	Whether they contacted you or asked you anything about the whereabouts of Snowden	他们有没有联系你询问斯诺登的行踪
[1:10:09]	Whether they have chosen another…	他们有没有选择另外的…
[1:10:11]	I have not heard from the authorities of any of them	我没有收到任何来自政府的消息
[1:10:15]	Do you, where do you think this story is going	你觉得对你对斯诺登
[1:10:18]	For you and of course for Snowden and of course	对美国媒体和美国政府来说
[1:10:21]	for the US media and the US administration in general	事情会怎么发展下去
[1:10:23]	Well, for me, I can tell, I’m gonna continue report on	我只能说说我个人方面
[1:10:26]	do my reporting on what the government has been doing	我会继续报道政府在这件事情上所作的一切
[1:10:28]	and what I think my readers should know about it	以及我认为我的读者应该知道的内幕
[1:10:31]	As for him, I don’t think anyone knows	对于他我相信没有人知道
[1:10:33]	I could have people come after me	人们可能会追捕我
[1:10:34]	Or any of their third party partners	或者任何他们的第三方伙伴
[1:10:37]	You know, they’re close to a number of other nations	他们和很多个国家关系都很亲密
[1:10:40]	Or you know they could pay off the triads	他们也可以买通帮会
[1:10:42]	Any of their agents or assets	或者找到任何特工或者有利的条件
[1:10:45]	We’ve got a CIA station just up the road	旁边路上就有一个中情局工作站
[1:10:48]	The consulate here in HK	美国驻香港领事馆…
[1:10:58]	Around the third of the country, 12 billion people are not going to work	三分之一的国家 120亿人口处在失业中…
[1:11:17]	The top story	今天的头条新闻
[1:11:19]	Facing a criminal investigation	揭发了国家安全局监听电话
[1:11:20]	the whistleblower who leaked the details	和拦截网络信息的告密者
[1:11:22]	On how NSA monitoring phone calls	今日现明正身
[1:11:25]	and internet data growing public	面临刑事调查
[1:11:27]	The security forces in Afghanistan	阿富汗安全部队称
[1:11:29]	say a number of Taliban insurgents have targeted a Kabul’s airport	一批塔利班叛军袭击了喀布尔机场
[1:11:34]	now it’s time for paper review	现在是评论报纸时间
[1:11:37]	and look what’s making headline around the world	来看看今天又哪些世界头条新闻
[1:11:39]	Let’s start with Guardian	我们先从卫报开始
[1:11:41]	our top story which is revealing the identity	今天的头条是告密者现明正身
[1:11:43]	of the former CIS employee	为前任中情局雇员
[1:11:45]	The paper says the leaked information exposing the scale	报道称泄露的信息暴露了
[1:11:49]	on American surveillance of the internet	美国对网络监视的规模
[1:11:52]	Edward Snowden	爱德华·斯诺登
[1:11:53]	What a great story	真是个好故事
[1:11:55]	What do you say	你怎么看
[1:11:56]	It’s a fantastic story	真是个不可思议的故事
[1:11:57]	First of all, it could be straight out of John le Carre’s novel	完全就像约翰·勒卡雷的小说
[1:12:00]	I mean when you read what he did	当你知道他做了什么
[1:12:02]	yes he got the material	对他是拿到了很多资料
[1:12:03]	he then decided to go the place to indentify himself	然后他决定亮明身份
[1:12:06]	God damn it	我靠
[1:12:08]	…which is HK	因为他在香港
[1:12:09]	because importing technically…inside China	中国是一国两制
[1:12:11]	the one country, two system policies there	所以在那里
[1:12:14]	meaning he would get the potentially some protection he thought	他可能会得到一些保护
[1:12:18]	all very well planned	这些都计划得很好
[1:12:19]	could be just our of the spy novels	简直就是间谍小说
[1:12:21]	but what about the details	但是关于细节…
[1:12:26]	I could make it worse but	我越弄越糟了但是
[1:12:32]	I’m not sure	我也不知道
[1:12:33]	just the lower half of my face	只是我的脸的下半部分…
[1:13:09]	Snowden says he’s becoming increasing dismayed	斯诺登称国家安全局权力的不断扩大
[1:13:11]	by that he saw as the growing power of the NSA	让他心生恐惧
[1:13:14]	and insists his decisions to passing on documents	非常坚定地要披露文件
[1:13:17]	which said to reveal not only organizations	这些文件不仅暴露了多个组织
[1:13:20]	monitor millions of phone calls	在监听电话记录
[1:13:22]	but that have direct access	而且还透露
[1:13:25]	How do you feel?	你感觉怎么样
[1:13:29]	What happens happens	该发生的都发生了
[1:13:31]	we’ve talked about this	我们也说过了
[1:13:32]	I know the risk	我知道风险
[1:13:35]	If I get arrested, I get arrested	如果我被捕了就被捕了
[1:13:39]	We are able to get the information	我们还是要拿到这些信息
[1:13:41]	the needed to get out out	需要公布的就公布
[1:13:45]	and you and Glenn are able to keep reporting	不管在我身上发生什么事
[1:13:49]	regardless what happens to me	你和格伦都要继续报道
[1:13:52]	now, 29 year old Edward Snowden says the US intelligence agency	29岁的爱德华·斯诺登称美国情报局
[1:13:56]	got millions of phone records	搜集了上百万的电话记录
[1:13:58]	and monitored internet data	并一直监控网络数据
[1:14:01]	the Guardian paper revealed his identity	卫报根据他的要求
[1:14:11]	I’m afraid you have the wrong room, thank you	对不起你打错电话了
[1:14:15]	Wall street Journal	华尔街日报
[1:14:28]	Yes, I’m sorry, say again	请再重复一遍
[1:14:36]	No, no thank you	哦不用了
[1:14:37]	No calls	没人会给我打电话
[1:14:38]	I think they have the wrong number	他们找错人了
[1:14:41]	Yeah, no calls, thank you	对没人会给我打电话
[1:14:43]	Wait, I’m sorry, if it’s, it’s two men from the front desk	如果是在前台的两个男人
[1:14:48]	They can call	他们可以打电话给我
[1:14:49]	But no else calls	其他电话就不用接了
[1:14:50]	Wait, actually just let them through	你就直接让他们上来
[1:14:54]	Wait, wait Ma’am, fuck	等等小姐我靠
[1:15:01]	Yes, wait, is it a lawyer?	等等是一名律师吗
[1:15:12]	No, no, no, I mean the people who are asking	不是我是问那个问你的人
[1:15:15]	Ask them if they are lawyers	问问他们是不是律师
[1:15:23]	No, tell her that she has the wrong number	告诉她打错电话了
[1:15:26]	and there’s no Mr Snowden here	这里没有斯诺登
[1:15:37]	Hi Robert, can you talk right now?	嗨罗伯特现在方便说话吗
[1:15:39]	I safely got into room.	我安全到达房间了
[1:15:42]	-I’m now salfly with the client.OK? -It’s OK.	-我现在跟客户很安全可以了吗 -好的
[1:15:46]	So, can we talk toghter about plan?	我们能谈谈计划吗
[1:15:49]	Did this application start already or what? Technically?	避难申请开始了吗还是
[1:15:55]	Yes, but? so technically it hasn’tstarted yet.	但是所以是还没有开始
[1:16:09]	Would you mind to talk in speakerphone?	可不可以放扩音器
[1:16:13]	Sorry.	不好意思
[1:16:14]	-Hey Robert? -Yeah, hi.	-你在吗 -在你好
[1:16:17]	Hi, I’m the client	你好我就是客户
[1:16:18]	Hi, hi, hi, Edward, how are you holding up?	爱德华你还好吗
[1:16:21]	I’m pretty good, I’m doing very well	我很好非常好
[1:16:24]	Ok, I just met with the head of the UNHCR here in hong kong,	我刚跟香港的联合国难民事务办事处的负责人见过面
[1:16:29]	and they’re aware that you are raising	他们知道你在寻求保护
[1:16:34]	the protection you are entitled to under the UNHCR and	你有权利享有联合国难民署的保护
[1:16:37]	-They wouls like you to come wih us to the UN. -OK	-他们想让你到我们联合国这边来 -好的
[1:16:41]	If you come now, it’slunchtime,	如果你现在来还是午饭时间
[1:16:43]	but they’re gonna let ue in.	但是他们会让我们进去
[1:16:45]	No one else can get in.	其他人不行
[1:16:46]	OK	好
[1:16:47]	At the UNHCR there are separate exits from the buiding	联合国难民署大楼有个独立出口
[1:16:50]	so we have a good opportunity,	你可以从那里出去
[1:16:52]	-If any of the media finds out you’re there, -Yeah	-如果媒体发现你在这里的话 -好的
[1:16:55]	You be able to exit a cifferent way from the building.	你可以从另一条通道离开大楼
[1:16:58]	OK. That’s great.	嗯不错
[1:16:59]	Is it OK if I bring equipment	我可以带点设备吗
[1:17:01]	‘Cause I am just kind of going,	这样我走的时候
[1:17:02]	so I can leave in any direction at any time	可以随时从任意方向离开
[1:17:04]	and not come back, if necessary	如果可以的话就不回来了
[1:17:06]	Just walk out of there, you don’t have to go back,	你只需离开那里就好不用再回来
[1:17:09]	OK	好的
[1:17:10]	Take whatever you want you, and just go with Mr. Man.	带上你想带的东西直接和曼先生走
[1:17:12]	I will pick you …	我会来接你
[1:17:14]	He knows ehere I’m gonna pick you guys up.	他知道我会在哪里接你们
[1:17:15]	And then I’ll bring you to the UNHCR	然后我会把你们带到联合国难民署
[1:17:17]	OK, that sounds good	嗯是个好主意
[1:17:18]	Allright	好的
[1:17:19]	Thank you, thank you so much for helping….	谢谢你谢谢你的帮助
[1:17:21]	He’s quite worried about the next step,	他很担心下一步怎么走
[1:17:24]	about accmmodation, where he is going to stay.	担心住所担心他之后要呆在哪里
[1:17:26]	where there is something private and that he would not be discovered by the police.	担心呆的地方是不是够隐秘会不会被警察发现
[1:17:31]	Don’t… Don’t…	别…别…
[1:17:32]	I wouldn’t worry about that now, let’s just get to the UN.	现在先不要担心那些先去联合国
[1:17:34]	ok.I see.	好的我明白
[1:17:35]	I will give you call before we start, ok?	我们出发前给你打个电话可以吗
[1:17:39]	OK, thank you	好的谢谢你
[1:17:39]	OK, thank you	好的谢谢你
[1:17:40]	Bey-bey.	再见
[1:17:41]	Be	再见
[1:17:42]	So… Now this,	然后现在
[1:17:44]	look at, we don’t have a car.	你看我们没有车之类的
[1:17:47]	What I’m thinking…	我在想
[1:17:49]	We may	我们可以
[1:17:52]	ask the concierge to arrange a car.	让前台给我们安排一辆车
[1:17:54]	Or we just go down and cath a taxi?	或者我们直接下楼打车
[1:17:57]	But it’s quite…	但是…
[1:17:58]	The traffic here in Sha Tsui is quite diffcult t get a taxi.	尖沙咀这边的交通打车是比较困难的
[1:18:02]	Yeah, so you…	这样那么你…
[1:18:04]	So is there president for this where Hong Kong	香港有没有领导人会因为
[1:18:07]	would extradite someone for political speech?	政治言论而引渡某人
[1:18:10]	No, I’m not aware of	我不太清楚
[1:18:12]	But if we have a torture claim	如果说我们这里有刑罚申请
[1:18:14]	or asylum seeking claim,	或是避难申请的话
[1:18:16]	then ther ought, under the law,	根据法律他们应该
[1:18:18]	they ought to give you recognizance	他们应该会为你提供担保
[1:18:21]	for you to stay in Hong Kong	让你待在香港
[1:18:22]	because they don’t know where to dump you back yet.	因为他们不知道把你送回哪里
[1:19:17]	The president certainly does not welcome the way	上周这场讨论已经引起很大关注
[1:19:19]	that this debate has earned a great attention in last week	总统显然表示不满
[1:19:22]	then the leaked class-five information	有关在反恐中至关重要的敏感项目
[1:19:23]	About sensitive programs that are important	其五级保密级别信息泄露俨然成了一个大问题
[1:19:26]	in our fighting against terrorists who	众所周知恐怖分子势必
[1:19:27]	will do harm to Americans is a problem	会对美国人民造成很大的危害
[1:19:30]	but the debate itself is ligitimate and should be engaged	但是讨论本身是合理的也是值得参与的
[1:19:43]		国家计划保护程序哨兵鹰
[1:19:45]		各位已经知晓哨兵鹰旨在保护国家安全局美国战略联合司令部等相关的最高机密即美国政府为保护…
[1:19:52]		美国企业美国学术界指定外国政府
[1:19:52]		指定的开放信息仅对美国政府及部分外国政府开放信息[例如五眼联盟] 对部分特殊指定的美国政府官员开放的信息
[1:19:52]		最高机密机密秘密仅供官方使用
[1:20:35]		ES 我的手稿已经被华盛顿邮报发表了国家安全局应该已经入侵了我的账户阻断了连接
[1:23:25]	All right.. So which ones do we want to here then?	哪个是我们想要的
[1:23:28]	This is operational stuff	这些都是有关如何操作的
[1:23:29]	so we mustn’t say any of this	这些我们不能说
[1:23:31]	So, redact that.	那就编辑一下
[1:23:32]	Go near the top	到最上面
[1:23:34]	What about the Alexander quote? Is that something…	亚力山大讲的那句话怎么样是不是…
[1:23:36]	Yeah, that’s in TARMAC.	这个是《TARMAC》项目
[1:23:37]	Why can’t we collect all the signals all the time?	为什么我们不能一直搜集所有信号
[1:23:40]	Sounds like a good summer homework project for Menwith.”	这就话听起来像是曼维斯的暑假作业
[1:23:43]	Keith Alexander, the head of the NSA, on a visit to U.K. This one.	国家安全局局长基思·亚力山大访问英国就这个
[1:23:47]	Yeah, that’s it	对就是这个
[1:23:48]	Secret documents. Is it?	秘密文件是这个吗
[1:23:49]	Secret documents?	秘密文件
[1:23:51]	We’re gonna stick here	我们要在这里呆很久
[1:23:52]	That should just have three single slides on there	这个只有三张独立幻灯片
[1:23:55]	It’s got more than three single slides on	更多的幻灯片在…
[1:23:58]	We have to be extremely careful	我们一定要非常小心
[1:23:59]		英国政府通讯总部控制互联网最初的多样性项目
[1:24:02]	Yeah?	这个
[1:24:03]	Yeah, that’s it	对就是这个
[1:24:04]	This is really dangerous stuff for us, Guardian	对我们卫报来说这太危险了
[1:24:08]	If we make mistakes, very angry	如果我们出出错会非常生气
[1:24:09]	We kept it all under lock and key	我们一定要妥善保管
[1:24:11]	And no one knows. No, I’m not saying that.	没人知道我不是说…
[1:24:14]	They will come in and snap the front door down	如果我们进行详细报道
[1:24:16]	if we elaborate on that.	他们肯定会把我们大门都拆了
[1:24:19]	And he said, “The prime minister is desperately concerned about this.”	他说首相非常关注此事
[1:24:22]	And they kept saying, “This is from the very top.”	他们反复强调这是最上头的命令
[1:25:36]	As you can see on this now, the flight bag	根据这个行李箱
[1:25:37]	it accordingly has Snowden aboard	斯诺登在这架飞机上
[1:25:39]	Almost reach its destination here in Moscow	这架飞机就快到达目的地莫斯科首都
[1:25:41]	scheduled to land in the Russia capital within a minute	一分钟内即将降落
[1:25:44]	As you may have heard, there is a CIA agent	你可能听说了一名中央情报局特工
[1:25:50]	who has revealed a lot of information	揭露了大量信息
[1:25:52]	And he’s now trapped in the, the airport in Moscow	现在他被困在莫斯科机场内
[1:25:58]	We’ve managed to get him out of Hong Kong,	我们已经成功把他带离香港
[1:25:59]	he landed in the Moscow airport.	想在莫斯科机场降落
[1:26:02]	The America government has canceled his passport	美国政府吊销了他的护照
[1:26:06]	so formally, he has entered into Russian territory	严格来说他已经进入俄罗斯领土
[1:26:09]	He is in a transit area of the airport	他现在在机场的中转区
[1:26:13]	And people is accompanying him	的人跟他在一起
[1:26:15]	We are trying to arrange a private jet to take him from Moscow	我们计划安排一架私人飞机带他离开莫斯科
[1:26:25]	To Ecuador or, or perhaps maybe then Venezuela	到厄尔瓜多或者委内瑞拉
[1:26:31]	or maybe Iceland, countries in where he will be safe	或者冰岛去那些能确保他人身安全的国家
[1:30:04]	May I collect all the phones, please?	请上交所有通讯设备
[1:30:11]	ok	好的
[1:30:19]	Put them in the refrigerator	把它们放进冰箱
[1:30:32]	So, as you know, in June	所以你们都知道六月份的时候
[1:30:35]	Snowden was in charge with three legal violations felonies	斯诺登被控告三项重罪罪名
[1:30:42]	principally under an world war one era.	主要从一战开始
[1:30:45]	criminal law called the Espionage Act	有一个刑法叫做反间谍法
[1:30:47]	the Espionage Act is an extremely broad criminal prohibition	反间谍法是一项范围相当广的犯罪禁令
[1:30:52]	against the sharing or dissemination of	旨在反对散布宣传
[1:30:56]	what’s called national defense information	所谓的国防信息
[1:30:58]	It was only used to prosecute people	它是用来起诉那些和国外势力
[1:31:02]	who had been accused of acting	间谍有关系的人
[1:31:04]	with foreign power, spies, not whistleblowers	但不用来起诉告密者
[1:31:07]	And it’s a very unusual legally representation,	我觉得不只是对你们所有人来说
[1:31:09]	I think, not just for all of you	就单单对我而言
[1:31:11]	but for, for me as well	这是一个非常特殊的辩护
[1:31:13]	The Espionage Act is not to distinguish between	因公众利益而向媒体泄密和
[1:31:17]	leaks to the press and public interests	为私人利益向国外势力出卖秘密
[1:31:19]	and selling secrets to foreign enemies for personal profit	在这两者上反间谍法并没有进行区分
[1:31:23]	so, under the Espionage Act, it’s not a defense	所以根据反间谍法
[1:31:27]	if the information that was disclosed should not	泄露的信息本身不应该隐瞒或保密级别不当
[1:31:29]	have been withheld in the first place and it was improperly classified	不能成为一个辩护理由
[1:31:33]	It’s not a defense if the dissemination was	泄露的信息是为了公众利益以及寻求改革
[1:31:36]	in the public interests that … reforms	也不能成为辩护理由
[1:31:38]	Even if a court determines that the program	即使法庭判决遭到信息泄露的项目是
[1:31:41]	that will reveal were illegal or unconstitutional	非法的或者违宪的
[1:31:44]	that’s still not a defense	它仍然不能成为一个辩护理由
[1:31:45]	Under the Espionage Act, the government	根据反间谍法
[1:31:47]	doesn’t have to defend the classification	政府是不需要对信息的保密级别分类作出解释的
[1:31:50]	It doesn’t have to demonstrate harm from the release	也不需要证明泄露的信息所具有的危害
[1:31:53]	All this is irrelevant	所有这一切都是无关的
[1:31:55]	So when we say that the trial wouldn’t be fair	所以说这个审判一定是不公平的
[1:31:58]	we are not talking about what human rights lawyers	我们现在所谈论的公平审判
[1:32:01]	think of is fair trial practices	不是人权律师概念中的那种公平审判
[1:32:03]	We are saying the law, the statue itself that eliminates	我们所谈的法律法规
[1:32:07]	any kind of defense that Snowden might be able to make,	它本身就排除了所有斯诺登可能可以使用的辩护理由
[1:32:11]	and essentially would equate him with the spy	最终可能把他等同于一个间谍
[1:32:13]	and of course, those three counts could be increased to	当然这三项罪名可能会被扩大到
[1:32:17]	a hundred or two hundred or three hundred,	一百项两百项或者三百项
[1:32:19]	they can charge him separately for each document	他们可以用记者公布的多份文件
[1:32:21]	that has been published by a journalist	一份份分别起诉他
[1:32:24]	And I think that, that we all recognize	我觉得我们都意识到
[1:32:26]	even though we sit here as lawyers in a lawyers’meeting,	即使我们以律师的身份坐在这里开律师会议
[1:32:29]	that, that is probably 95% politics and 5% law,	我们都知道最终的结果可能
[1:32:35]	how this will be result	政治因素占95% 法律因素只占5%
[1:32:44]		ES 联邦调查局已经拿到授权将会和中央情报局还有其他匿名国家包括英国一起合作调查我的计划以及全世界我的联系人的位置
[1:33:09]	Mr. Snowden has been charged of fair serious crimes	斯诺登先生因严重罪行而被控告
[1:33:11]	and he should be returned to the United States	他必须回到美国根据宪法下的司法制度
[1:33:14]	where he will be granted full due process and	进行法定诉讼程序
[1:33:17]	every right available to him as a United States citizen	我们将予以其所有美国公民的权力
[1:33:20]	facing our justice system under the constitution	在宪法的监督下进入司法程序
[1:34:15]	I don’t think Mr. Snowden was a patriot.	我认为斯诺登先生不能算作一位爱国者
[1:34:17]	I called for a thorough review of our surveillance operations	在他泄密之前
[1:34:23]	before Mr. Snowden made these leaks	我曾经要求对我们的监测行动进行彻底的审查
[1:34:26]	My preference, and I think, the American people’s preference	我希望我觉得全国民众也希望
[1:34:31]	would have been for a lawful, orderly examination of these laws	对相关法律进行合法有序的审查
[1:34:37]	A thoughtful fact-to-base debate, that would then lead us to a better place	一场深思熟虑忠于事实的讨论会帮助我们进步
[1:35:02]		在他与我在柏林见面后的回程中格伦·格林沃尔德的搭档大卫·米兰达因为英国的反恐法案在伦敦希思罗机场被拘留九个小时
[1:35:24]	Oh, my god.	天呐
[1:35:26]	David.	大卫
[1:35:29]	Hello, my baby	宝贝
[1:35:31]	Are you ok?	你还好吗
[1:35:39]	I just wanna go	我想离开
[1:35:39]	Ok, ok, ok.	好好好
[1:35:41]	You just have to walk here	走这边
[1:35:50]	How are you?	还好吗
[1:35:51]	good, good, I am totally fine. I didn’t… but I couldn’t sleep	我很好…但是我睡不着觉
[1:35:54]	I know.	我知道
[1:36:17]	Recent report has revealed that the NSA has access	近期报道披露了国家安全局
[1:36:20]	to encryption keys and they paid tech companies	能够使用加密密钥并买通技术公司
[1:36:23]	to introduce back doors in encryption protocols	钻加密协议的空子
[1:36:25]	So we are going to talk about ways in which	我们要谈论的是
[1:36:28]	we can defend ourselves against governments’spying on us	如何反对政府监视保护个人隐私
[1:36:32]	So Mr. Jacob Applebaum was encryptioinist of Security Software developer,	雅各布·阿佩尔鲍姆先生是安全软件开发者
[1:36:37]	and journalist Ladar Levison the founder of	记者雷达·利维森是电子邮件加密服务Lavabit的创始人
[1:36:40]	the encrypted emailed service Lavabit used by Edward Snowden	爱德华·斯诺登所使用的就是Lavabit
[1:36:45]	You have the floor	时间交给你
[1:36:46]	Thank you	谢谢
[1:36:47]	Lavabit is a email service that hopefully one day	Lavabit是一项电子邮件服务我希望有一天大家
[1:36:50]	will be able to stand on its own without any references to Snowden	提起它的时候是因为该电子邮件服务本身而非斯诺登
[1:36:56]	My service was designed to remove me from the possibility	我的这项服务旨在消除我
[1:37:00]	of being forced to violate a person’s privacy	被迫侵犯他人隐私的可能性
[1:37:04]	Quite simply,	很简单
[1:37:05]	Lavabit was designed to remove the service provider	Lavabit 这项服务就是通过在服务器上
[1:37:08]	from the equation by not having logs on my server	不储存日志记录不提供读取他人邮件和磁盘的方法
[1:37:12]	and not having access to a person’s emails on disk	从而在该过程中抹去服务提供商
[1:37:15]	I was eliminating the possibility of surveillance	我之前所做的就是为了减少监视的可能性
[1:37:18]	I was simply removing myself from that equation in that	因为监视必须要有一个目标对象
[1:37:23]	surveillance would have to be conducted on the target,	不是信息的发送者就是信息的接收者
[1:37:26]	either tsender or the receiver of the messages	我只是将自己从这个发送到接受的过程中抹去了
[1:37:30]	But I was approached by the FBI quite recently	但是最近联邦调查局找到我
[1:37:34]	and told that because I could turn off the information	说我因为可以关闭特定用户信息
[1:37:38]	from that one particular user	必须放弃SSL密钥
[1:37:40]	I would be forced to give up those SSL keys	在完全不透明公开的情况下
[1:37:42]	to let FBI collect every communication on my network	让联邦调查局从我的网络中
[1:37:45]	without any kind of transparency	搜集所有通讯信息
[1:37:48]	And of course, I wasn’t comfortable with that	当然我当然很生气
[1:37:52]	to say the least more disturbing was the fact	毫不夸张地说
[1:37:56]	that I could tell anybody that it was going on	我那时觉得不能跟别人说这件事更让人心烦
[1:37:59]	So I decided, if I didn’t win the fight to unseal my case	所以我决定如果我不能说出真相
[1:38:04]	if I didn’t win the battle to be able to tell people what was going on	如果我不能告诉世人正在发生的一切
[1:38:09]	then my only ethical choose left was to shut it down	那么我唯一忠于道德的选择就是关闭它
[1:38:14]	Think about that	想一想
[1:38:17]	I believe in the rule of law	我相信法治
[1:38:19]	I believe the need to conduct investigations	我相信对于这件事是有调查的必要的
[1:38:23]	But those investigations are supposed to be difficult for a reason,	但是这些调查不应该这么简单就能开展
[1:38:26]	it’s supposed to difficult to invade somebody’s privacy	他人的隐私不应该这么容易就受到侵犯
[1:38:30]	Because of how intrusive it is	因为这种行为
[1:38:33]	because of how disruptive it is,	具有很大的入侵性和破坏性
[1:38:36]	If we can, if we don’t have our right to privacy	如果如果我们失去隐私
[1:38:39]	how do we have a free and open discussion?	我们要如何进行自由公开的讨论
[1:38:42]	What good is the right to free speech if it’s not protected	如果言论自由不受保护
[1:38:49]	in the sense	也就是说
[1:38:50]	that you can’t have a private discussion	对有异议的事你不能和别人进行私底下讨论
[1:38:52]	with somebody else about something you disagree with	那么这种言论自由又有什么好呢
[1:38:55]	Think about the chilling effect that has,	想想由此造成的令人心生恐惧的影响
[1:38:58]	Think about the chilling effect it does have on countries	想想这对一个没有隐私的国家
[1:39:01]	that don’t have a right to privacy	所造成的可怕影响
[1:39:03]	I notice a really interesting discussion point	我发现一个很有趣的现象
[1:39:05]	which is that what people used call liberty and freedom	民众从前称之为自由的东西
[1:39:08]	we now call it privacy	现在被叫做隐私
[1:39:11]	And we say, in the same breath the privacy is dead	同时我们说隐私已死
[1:39:15]	This is something that really concerns me	对于我们这一代人特别是当我们说
[1:39:17]	about my generation, especially when we talk about	没有什么事能让我们感到惊讶的了
[1:39:19]	how we are not surprised by anything.	我真的感到非常的担忧
[1:39:21]	I think that we should consider that when we lose privacy,	我觉得我们应该想想当我们失去隐私
[1:39:24]	we lose agency, we lose liberty itself	我们失去媒介我们失去自由本身
[1:39:27]	because we no longer feel free to express what we think	因为我们不能再自由地表达自己的看法
[1:39:30]	There is this myth of the past surveillance machine	从前有一个关于监视仪的神话故事
[1:39:32]	But actually what is surveillance	但什么是监视呢
[1:39:34]	Is that control	是控制吗
[1:39:35]	This notion that the NSA are passive	国家安全局的这种做法是被动的
[1:39:37]	This is nonsense	这种说法完全是胡说八道
[1:39:38]	What we see was that they actively	我们看到的是
[1:39:39]	attack European citizens, American citizens	他们侵犯了欧洲人美国人
[1:39:42]	and in fact anyone that they can if they perceive an advantage	如果他们看到任何好处的话他们会选择去侵犯所有人
[1:41:22]	OK.	好的
[1:41:26]	What will you tell the Germany people?	你想对德国人民说点什么
[1:41:29]	I have to get that in the testimony	你想对德国人民说点什么
[1:41:32]	What else do you need to tell?	我要留着给我的证词
[1:41:34]	Everything I can truthfully	没有别的要说的吗
[1:41:38]	what will you be talking about?	我会一五一十的把我知道的说出来
[1:41:40]	Whatever the question they ask me	不管他们问我什么
[1:41:43]	Yeah, I think it’s over there	我想就到此为止吧
[1:41:44]	Ok, alright	好的
[1:41:46]	Thank you	谢谢
[1:41:51]	Hello, Mr. Binney	你好宾尼先生
[1:41:53]	Hi.	你好
[1:41:54]	How are you?	怎么样
[1:41:54]	Good.	挺好的
[1:41:55]	How are you?	你怎么样
[1:41:56]	Good	很好
[1:41:56]	See you again	又见面了
[1:41:57]	Nice to meet you	很高兴见到你
[1:41:57]	Yes.	是啊
[1:42:08]	It is my pleasure to be here.I feel that it’s important to testify	很荣幸能够来到这里我觉得能出来作证很重要
[1:42:12]	about what’s really going on behind teh scenes in the intelligence communities around the world	揭露全球情报界幕后发生的一切
[1:42:17]	Not just in NSA.	不仅仅只是国家安全局
[1:42:19]	All those programs that Edward Sonwden has exposed	所有爱德华·斯诺登所披露的项目
[1:42:22]	foundamentally are ways of acquiring information.	基本上都是有关信息搜集渠道的
[1:42:26]	Every dictatorship doen through history has always done that.	历史上每一个独裁国家都做过这样的事
[1:42:29]	One of the first things they need to do is try to acquire knowledge of their population.	他们首要任务就是获得民众信息
[1:42:34]	And that’s exactly what those programs do.	这些项目的目的也是为了获得民众信息
[1:42:37]	I see this as the most major threat to our democracies all around the world.	我认为对于全世界来说这是对民主的最大威胁
[1:42:41]		德国针对国家安全局窃听丑闻调查委员会中有为美国中情局效力的双面间谍这一消息打断了宾尼的证词
[1:43:30]	What do you think they are doing to reporters those of us	你觉得他们会对怎么对付我们这些
[1:43:32]	who are working directly with Snowden documents	和斯诺登件有直接接触的记者
[1:43:36]	How do you think they would approach dealing with people like us	你觉得他们会怎么对付像我们这样的人
[1:43:38]	You are, you are on the of cover list	你们都在监视名单上
[1:43:42]	which means that any, any electronic device you use	也就是说利用你使用的任何电子设备
[1:43:46]	that they can attach to you	他们都可以找到你
[1:43:47]	they all record and capture all that data	他们会记录获取所有数据
[1:43:49]	and what did they do with that data?	他们会如何处理那些数据
[1:43:51]	They just try to figure out what we were doing?	只是找出我们正在做什么
[1:43:52]	Well, that’s part of it.	嗯那是其中一部分
[1:43:55]	But the other part, the primary part is for them.	另一部分我觉得主要目的是
[1:43:57]	I think is to find the sources of information you are getting	找出你的消息来源
[1:44:00]	So if I have a confidential source	那么如果我有一个秘密的消息来源
[1:44:01]	who’s giving me the information as a whistleblower	他是以告密人的身份给我信息的
[1:44:04]	and he works for the US government	他在美国政府工作
[1:44:06]	And he is concerned about what he perceives	他对他认为是违宪的
[1:44:08]	as violations of the constitution,	政府行为感到担忧
[1:44:11]	And he gets in touch with me	于是就联系到我
[1:44:12]	They	他们
[1:44:13]	Yeah	嗯
[1:44:14]	go ahead	请继续
[1:44:15]	Yeah, from then on, they would nail him and start watching everything	对他们会盯上他关注他的一举一动
[1:44:18]	he did and if he starts passing data	然后开始获取数据
[1:44:20]	I’m sure that they take him off on the street.	我觉得他们会把他从直接从街上就带走
[1:44:22]	I mean the way they have to do it is like Deep-Throat did, right	我的意思是他们所做的
[1:44:26]	in the Nixon years	和尼克松时期的深喉一样
[1:44:28]	Meet in a basement of a parking garage physically	在暗处行动
[1:45:12]	let’s disassociate your metadata one last time,	这是我们最后一次切断数据联系了
[1:45:15]	So we don’t have a clue or record of your true name	这样我们在你的文件通信链里
[1:45:17]	In your file communication chain	就没有你真实姓名的记录
[1:45:19]	This is obviously not to say you can’t claim your involvement	当然这不是说你不能证明自己与这件事与有关
[1:45:22]	But as every trick in the book is likely to be used in looking into this.	所有能用来调查这件事的方法都已经用过了
[1:45:26]	I believe it’s better that particular disclosures come on your own terms	我觉得公布什么信息最好还是由你自己决定
[1:45:32]	Thank you again for all you’ve done	感谢你所做的一切
[1:45:34]	So sorry again for the multiple delays	很抱歉我之前多次延期
[1:45:36]	But we’ve been on an untrod territory	因为我们现在所处的地方人迹罕至
[1:45:38]	with no mode to benefit from	根本没有调制解调器
[1:45:41]	If all ends well	如果一切都结束得顺利的话
[1:45:42]	perhaps the demonstration that our methods work	因为我们而引起的示威游行
[1:45:45]	will embolden more to come forward.	可能会更大胆的走上街头
[1:45:48]	Citizen	公民
[1:45:54]	So the update that I wanna give you is about…	我要告诉你的最新情况
[1:45:57]	the new source that we…	是新的消息来源…
[1:46:03]	OK.	嗯
[1:46:05]	That this is what …	就是…
[1:46:11]	This is the, you know, this is the person who’s doing the most…	你知道就是这个人…
[1:46:13]	Right, right, right	嗯
[1:46:15]	the work on it	这个人就是泄密的人
[1:46:18]	And now, and now basically what happens is…	现在的情况就是…
[1:46:25]	And…	还有…
[1:46:26]	That’s actually…that’s really dangerous on the sources’side	实际上对于消息来源那一方这很危险
[1:46:32]	Do they know how to take care of themselves?	他们知道怎么样保护自己吗
[1:46:34]	He knows, he knows	知道知道
[1:46:35]	he means it’s all being done through this	他的意思是所有都是这样完成的…
[1:46:42]	OK.	嗯
[1:46:43]	And they are all talking…this way?	他们在谈论是这样的…
[1:46:47]	OK.	嗯
[1:46:47]	And…	还有…
[1:46:49]	I was gonna say that one of the big questions	我想说一个很严重的问题
[1:46:50]	there is can they handle it, you know?	他们可以处理好吗
[1:46:52]	Yeah, they are very careful.	他们会的他们很小心
[1:46:55]	Even they’re through that	即使他们都经历了…
[1:46:56]	Yeah.	嗯
[1:47:02]	And..	还有…
[1:47:10]	That’s what that is.	这就是那个…
[1:47:14]	Wow, that’s really something.	哇这真的太那个了…
[1:47:28]	You know that?	你知道
[1:47:36]	It’s not the actual planes	其实不在飞机问题上…
[1:47:39]	Right, right,	对对
[1:47:40]	you mean the control.	你是说是是控制权的问题…
[1:47:41]	It’s the process who’s sending the..	就是谁发送命令…
[1:47:43]	Yeah.	是的
[1:47:44]	There is a chart, you know,	其实还有一个流程图
[1:47:46]	There’s a whole way out in it for everyone	对所有人都有一个筛选过程
[1:47:49]	is really bold, is really risky	这很冒险风险很大
[1:47:51]	But, you know, that’s the thing	但是
[1:47:53]	if they understand what they are doing	重要的是他们知道自己在做什么
[1:47:55]	They are more…	他们更…
[1:47:55]	There is this chart because of this	关于这个流程图是有原因的
[1:47:57]	It shows that decision-making chart	就是这样一个决策流程图
[1:47:59]	It’s a chart…it’s, it’s shaped like this	就是这个样子
[1:48:08]	So says..	所以说
[1:48:10]	That’s the decision making chart for each one	这就是用来筛查每个人的流程图
[1:48:16]	That’s	这
[1:48:19]	It’s so political	这太政治化了
[1:48:21]	This is, this part’s amazing	这是这部分太惊人
[1:48:29]	That’s fucking ridiculous	真他妈的荒谬
[1:48:32]	This is so shocking	这实在太震惊了
[1:48:40]		在监视名单上各个不同监视等级加起来一共有120万人
[1:48:41]	I know	我知道
[1:48:47]	That’s what we were working on.	这个就是我们收到的消息
[1:49:04]	That person is incredible bold	那个人太大胆了
[1:49:05]	But..	但是…
[1:49:07]	But also very well there..	但是做的非常好
[1:49:09]	Right.	对
[1:49:09]	You know, I just hope, I mean..	你知道我只是希望我是说…
[1:49:12]	Now I mean the baldness is shocking	这么大胆确实是有点让人震惊
[1:49:14]	But it meant it was obviously motivated by what you did, I mean	我是说这很明显都是受你启发
[1:49:17]	This is going to, this is going to, that could raise the profile of	这样的话会把整件有关告密者政治事件的关注度
[1:49:24]	this whole political situation with whistle blowing to a whole new level but….	上升到一个新高度但是…
[1:49:28]	Exactly.	确实
[1:49:29]	It’s gonna…	这会…
[1:49:30]	Yeah, I mean, I actually think that’s a great thing.	嗯我真的觉得这是件非常好的事
[1:49:33]	And I think people are going to see	我觉得人们将看到
[1:49:35]	what’s being hiding, again, again	那些被政府的黑暗势力
[1:49:37]	by a totally different part of the government.	一次又一次隐藏起来的真相

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